Bad call

[bigred1]

What a bad call on infield fly rule, momentum changer, not saying they would have won, but wow. Can try and justify all he wants, hate to see Chipper go out like that.

[David W]

I'm a Cardinal fan and a Bear fan.....

I think the left field ump was the replacement back judge in the MNF game between Packers and Seahawks....

Both were great calls......

Seriously though, borderline at best "Infield Fly" call.

[jp1216]

Borderline call at best. Landed 225ft from home. Just because the SS appeared 'camped' under the ball doesn't mean it's an automatic call. What if the ball was hit a mile high and the SS runs to the warning track and camps under it? Not to mention the call wasn't 'immediate' per the rule. Very late.
No excuse for that fan behavior, however.

[ALR-bishop]

In the replay, when the ump invokes the rule, the ball is in the air, the infielder has called for it and appears to have a play, and there are runners at 1B and 2B---all of which the under the actual words of the rule seem to call for the rule to be invoked. All the stuff that makes it look like a bad call happen after the rule was already invoked The nature of this rule is that it has to be invoked before whatever happens happens.

As for bad calls, what about the ump giving time to a batte after the pitcher has begun his wind up on what would have been strike 3 and then ends up getting a 2 run homer...or a close play at first base where the fielder seems to touch the base before the runner gets there. At least the Cardinals did not go berserk on those two calls

[nolemmings]

Sorry Al. When the umpire's arm goes up, the SS has already started to peel away from the ball. He was never camped under it either--he is backpedaling the entire time until he stops to peel away. That call did not comport with either the letter or spirit of the rule. BTW, whether in the rules or not, an OF umpire should not be allowed to call the infield fly rule.

IMO, any ball where an OF has a chance to catch it should not be infield fly by rule--end of story. How embarrassing, although not controversial, would it have been had he called IF fly and outfielder Holliday ended up making the catch.

I'm not going to say the Braves got robbed, because they did not play well enough to win and in fact deserved to lose. Whining about a play that was nothing more than the other team's boner is even a bit undignified, IMO. Finally, while I have never been a Chipper Jones fan, I wanted him to win to keep on playing-- but seeing him jog half-ass down to first base in his final major league AB (even though he got bailed out by the ump) was exactly how I will remember him.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Sorry Al. When the umpire's arm goes up, the SS has already started to peel away from the ball.

Glad someone else noticed this - this morning at coffee I had to listen to a gloating Cards fan complain about the 'whining' Braves fans and how the infielder backed off AFTER he saw the ump's hand go up :roll eyes: It's one thing to be a Cardinal fan - it's quite another to be a blind Cardinal fan.

The announcers saw it incorrectly as well, but that should come as no surprise. They also got on their pedestals about the fans throwing stuff on the field, but while it was clearly a bad thing to do, this was all-or-nothing and they had just seen their team get robbed of a legitimate chance to come back quickly.

[HRBAKER]

I grew up just outside of St. Louis and then lived in Atlanta for 18 years. This was a tough game for me to watch. I slowly morphed into a Braves fan first in college by watching them on the Superstation in the fraternity house and then living there for 18 years. Although the Cardinals benefited from a bad, no make that horrendous call, the whole game was the typical tight-ass choke job type of play that the Braves have become famous for in the postseason.

Compare the fire in that Braves lineup to what you see from the Cards, or the A's, or the O's.

[murcerfan]

without the drunk in the stands screaming "I got, I got it, I got it"

The SS makes the catch.

Stay classy Atlanta and have another beer with that whine.

[nolemmings]

Upon further reflection, I would clarify one point. I still believe the infield fly rule never should have been called, as it was not a routine play, and there was no chance of a double play had it been purposely dropped or allowed to drop. The fielder was not camped under it and was in backpedal mode.

The timing of the call, however, is a red herring IMO, and probably benefited the Braves. Had the umpire signaled IF fly immediately, as some contend he should have if he was going to call it at all, then I believe the Braves runners would have retreated and not been in a position to advance when the ball hit the ground. They would not need to go part-way to avoid being forced out and would not want to be doubled up, so my guess is they would have been at least somewhat further away from their next base than they actually were because of the late call. Whether they make it anyway because of the ball falling in I do not know, but my point is that the delay in making the call had no adverse affect on Atlanta that I can see.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

the whole game was the typical tight-ass choke job type of play that the Braves have become famous for in the postseason.

Compare the fire in that Braves lineup to what you see from the Cards, or the A's, or the O's.

I lived in Atlanta from '94-'05, and that lack of fire was why I never became a Braves fan. I went to playoff games every year during that period and if you looked at the dugout railing on either side, the Braves were noticeably lacking the fire you mention. Hard to get excited about a team like that.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by runscott

i lived in atlanta from '94-'05, and that lack of fire was why i never became a braves fan. I went to playoff games every year during that period and if you looked at the dugout railing on either side, the braves were noticeably lacking the fire you mention. Hard to get excited about a team like that.

+1, i grew up in atlanta and have followed the braves for years. The emotion and fire is never with them in the post season, and every year is the same old broken record. Yes, the infield fly call was a bad one, but it should have never been a factor in the first place. The chipper jones error in the 4th inning was the crushing blow as medlin was cruising at that point....

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Sorry Al. When the umpire's arm goes up, the SS has already started to peel away from the ball. He was never camped under it either--he is backpedaling the entire time until he stops to peel away. That call did not comport with either the letter or spirit of the rule. BTW, whether in the rules or not, an OF umpire should not be allowed to call the infield fly rule.

IMO, any ball where an OF has a chance to catch it should not be infield fly by rule--end of story. How embarrassing, although not controversial, would it have been had he called IF fly and outfielder Holliday ended up making the catch.

I'm not going to say the Braves got robbed, because they did not play well enough to win and in fact deserved to lose. Whining about a play that was nothing more than the other team's boner is even a bit undignified, IMO. Finally, while I have never been a Chipper Jones fan, I wanted him to win to keep on playing-- but seeing him jog half-ass down to first base in his final major league AB (even though he got bailed out by the ump) was exactly how I will remember him.

Completely agree with this in its entirety. Kozma backed off well before the Ump signaled "out". And the purpose of the rule is to prevent a double play (which had zero chance of happening on a ball hit that deep).

But mostly I agree with the part about Chipper Jones "dogging it" down the line. That was the most deplorable aspect of this poorly played game. Even worse than his devastating game-changing error, IMHO.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by perezfan

completely agree with this in its entirety. Kozma backed off well before the ump signaled "out". And the purpose of the rule is to prevent a double play (which had zero chance of happening on a ball hit that deep).

But mostly i agree with the part about chipper jones "dogging it" down the line. That was the most deplorable aspect of this poorly played game. Even worse than his devastating game-changing error, imho.

good point, and i agree. For him to end his career like this is a travesty.....