John Rogers: From Net 54 to Prison

[vintagewhitesox]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Opinions vary greatly. Mastro only got 20 months and made millions. I would do 20 months for all the cash he made screwing people in a heartbeat. This is the guy who admitted doing anything to improve an item so it would sell for more cash.

Look at the Mastro shill bidder list. Look how many are still running auction houses or are big names in the card grading industry. It is actually quite sickening.

You wouldn't want to spend 1 minute in a federal prison, no matter where you are housed. They are horrible places that take away your freedom and your security is never insured. I wouldn't trade 20 million for my freedom and my family.

Rogers' arraignment is on 10/7. He hasn't been indicted which makes it sound like he will most likely plead guilty.
He will have a similar problem like Allen, with the obstruction of justice issue. Allen warned Rogers about the FBI raid, and if Rogers destroyed documents in anticipation of that raid, he's got a problem.
A judge can consider similarly situated defendants' sentences (i.e, Allen, Mastro) in fashioning a sentence for Rogers. Most likely he won't get higher than Allen, but not less than Mastro.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by vintagewhitesox

You wouldn't want to spend 1 minute in a federal prison, no matter where you are housed. They are horrible places that take away your freedom and your security is never insured. I wouldn't trade 20 million for my freedom and my family.

I am not sure how anybody got this 20 million figure. Maybe Jake's post that made no sense.

I have done time it really is not that bad. Like with life outside it is what you make it.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I am not sure how anybody got this 20 million figure. Maybe Jake's post that made no sense.

I have done time it really is not that bad. Like with life outside it is what you make it.

Just giving an example...you did say he made 'millions'...

Not saying he made 20 million, who knows what he made..maybe more or less...the exact figure was not important..

Concept is..rather do jail for 20 months and make millions? Or rather work at a tough job and make 20-50k a year for a lifetime. Some will choose one, some would choose the other. Thats all i meant..thanks

I do get there is a big difference between 20 million and 2 million in regards to someone risking their freedom for something but was not trying to debate that issue.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Just giving an example...you did say he made 'millions'...

Not saying he made 20 million, who knows what he made..maybe more or less...the exact figure was not important..

Concept is..rather do jail for 20 months and make millions? Or rather work at a tough job and make 20-50k a year for a lifetime. Some will choose one, some would choose the other. Thats all i meant..thanks

OK that makes sense. I didn't get the 20 million #.

[Yoda]

it is only my twisted mind, but I can't help but wonder that, in the remote possibility that Rogers and Allen serve their time in the same Fed pen, whether Doug might be waiting for John in the prison shower room for a little chat. You know, explain the ropes of prison bathing etiquette, that sort of thing.

[Leon]

You have never personally met both of them, obviously.

Originally Posted by Yoda

it is only my twisted mind, but I can't help but wonder that, in the remote possibility that Rogers and Allen serve their time in the same Fed pen, whether Doug might be waiting for John in the prison shower room for a little chat. You know, explain the ropes of prison bathing etiquette, that sort of thing.

[Yoda]

I have never met Rogers, and from the sound of it that's a good thing, but I have known Doug for nearly 20 years and was both sickened and saddened by the whole Mastro disclosure. It never occurred to me that he was anything but straightforward and honest. I can say almost categorically that I never felt there was any shill bidding on my behalf for any of my consignments given to Mastro via my friend Kevin Struss. An example is when I folded up the Fullcount tent in 2005 and liquidated the inventory in a Mastro auction. One of the many great cards there was a Sporting News Ruth rookie, graded by Derek Grady of SGC as 70 ex+. I believe it fetched around $15,000 at auction and not the $140,000 level we are seeing today. I fear Doug fooled a lot of people, including me.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by vintagewhitesox

You wouldn't want to spend 1 minute in a federal prison, no matter where you are housed. They are horrible places that take away your freedom and your security is never insured. I wouldn't trade 20 million for my freedom and my family.

Rogers' arraignment is on 10/7. He hasn't been indicted which makes it sound like he will most likely plead guilty.
He will have a similar problem like Allen, with the obstruction of justice issue. Allen warned Rogers about the FBI raid, and if Rogers destroyed documents in anticipation of that raid, he's got a problem.
A judge can consider similarly situated defendants' sentences (i.e, Allen, Mastro) in fashioning a sentence for Rogers. Most likely he won't get higher than Allen, but not less than Mastro.

Rogers has a huge bank fraud to deal with which Mastro and Allen did not. I suspect his sentencing guidelines will be significantly higher; in addition, there won't be the same dispute as to loss amount as there was with Mastro and Allen which caused some of the concessions made by the feds at sentencing.

And of course, no one has ever claimed that Mastro made even remotely close to $20 million from his scheme. Not even close. The government claimed that Mastro made between 400K and a million dollars although Mastro destroyed bidding records which could have raised that figure. Assuming he stole $2 million, he also paid a 250K fine and probably a $1 million in legal fees. One would have to be crazy to want to become a felon, lose their reputation and livelihood and spend 20 months in prison for maybe a 750K gain. I think when you appreciate how little money he actually made from his fraud it becomes clear that Mastro was more interested in power than money. He had a very profitable business without the fraud. Rogers, on the other hand, was just a greedy, dishonest lowlife.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Rogers has a huge bank fraud to deal with which Mastro and Allen did not. I suspect his sentencing guidelines will be significantly higher; in addition, there won't be the same dispute as to loss amount as there was with Mastro and Allen which caused some of the concessions made by the feds at sentencing.

And of course, no one has ever claimed that Mastro made even remotely close to $20 million from his scheme. Not even close. The government claimed that Mastro made between 400K and a million dollars although Mastro destroyed bidding records which could have raised that figure. Assuming he stole $2 million, he also paid a 250K fine and probably a $1 million in legal fees. One would have to be crazy to want to become a felon, lose their reputation and livelihood and spend 20 months in prison for maybe a 750K gain. I think when you appreciate how little money he actually made from his fraud it becomes clear that Mastro was more interested in power than money. He had a very profitable business without the fraud. Rogers, on the other hand, was just a greedy, dishonest lowlife.

Not trying to argue Jeff. I would think Mastro make way over 2 million defrauding costumers in his career. Even with your 750K after expenses estimate there are millions of people who would do 20 months for that amount. You have to take into account that 750K is way more than the average person has made in the last 20 years combined. Yes most rich people would never do it on purpose but 750K is nothing to them. To the average person it is many many years of wages.