Who do you think deserves to be in the HOF!!

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Posted By: Chris Counts

There seem to a quite a bit of controversy about Minnie's age. Whether he was born in 1922 or 1925, the guy is a bonafide HOFer in my book. Here's a few comments from others about him:

Bill James considers Minnie Minoso the 85th best player in the history of the game ...

"Minoso didn't get to play in the majors until he was 28 years old, but had a better career after age 28 than almost any Hall of Fame left/right fielder," writes James. "Minoso hit for power, drove in 100 runs like clockwork, was a Gold Glove outfielder and one of the best baserunners of his time. Had he gotten the chance to play in the Majors when he was 21 years old, I think he'd probably be rated among the top thirty players of all time."

Paul Soglin:

"He was 21 in 1945 when he played his first fall season of Cuban Baseball with Maraino hitting .294," writes Soglin. "The next year was he hitting .309 for the New York Cubans. The following season, 1947, Minoso again led the New York Cubans as they captured the Negro National League pennant and easily defeated the Cleveland Buckeyes to win the Negro League World Series. In that Series, Minoso was the offensive star, batting over .400 ... Some say Minoso was born in 1925. It doesn't make a bit of difference. It would have meant three fewer potential seasons in the majors. He didn't need the three years. Minoso languished for two years in the minors once Cleveland signed him in 1949. They didn't understand his style of baseball-speed, hustle, and potentially leading the majors with hit by pitches was not a white 'Yankee' thing."

Here's an interesting question: If Minnie and Ron Santo played for the Yankees, and not for the White Sox and Cubs respectively, would they be in the HOF?

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Posted By: peter chao

Guys,

Once Minnie Minnoso made it to the majors he was tremendous. Black players should never be denied the Hall of Fame because of their race.

Lefty O'Doul as a ballplayer was on the borderline of the Hall. But fully deserves the honor based upon his contribution of developing baseball in Japan which has truly made the game international.

Peter

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Posted By: warshawlaw

http://imageevent.com/exhibitman/frankleftyodoulcard

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Posted By: fkw

Frank O'Doul and his career .349 AVE!


Santo average more RBIs per year than Mantle, and both Santo and Minoso had the same amount of 100 RBI years as Mantle (4), but I still dont see them as a HOFer.

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Posted By: daryle

William Ellsworth Hoy, better known as Dummy? Or has someone listed him and I missed it?

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Posted By: daryle

After posting that I found where someone listed Hoy........and I agree

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Posted By: howard

Cecil Travis! I've posted about his Hall case on this board before. He's still alive so this would be the time to put him in.

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Posted By: RC McKenzie

Gavvy Cravath, Tommy John, Dave Kingman

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Posted By: Anonymous

Bobby Mathews, Bill Dahlen, Ron Santo, Wes Ferrell + Ken Boyer.

Can we vote anyone out?

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Posted By: Billy Stair

Pete "Freaking" Rose...... IF the juicers of the modern era (Mac, Sosa and ALL the others) get in Charlie Hustle DESERVES to be there.

Bill

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Posted By: howard

Doc Cramer surely does not belong in the Hall. He played in a great hitters era but had no power, didn't take many walks, was a poor base stealer and even though his best asset was his BA he did not even hit .300 for his career. Forgotten OFs of the same era such as Wally Berger and Bob Johnson were much better players although their careers were a bit short to merit Hall consideration.

Dummy Hoy was better than Cramer but if he were not deaf his name would never come up as a candidate. Hoy was similar to Brett Butler who was a fine player but also not Hall material. Even if Hoy was responsible for umpires hand signals I don't think it is an innovation that rises to Hall standards. Some way or another, before Hoy came around, the umps managed to make known what their calls were.

I should note that the above comments are made with the idea that players such as Lloyd Waner and Rick Ferrell also do not belong in the Hall. If they remain in then yes, by all means, put Cramer and Hoy in. Then make room for Bobby Murcer, Ken Boyer, Vern stephens and a hundred other superior players.

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Posted By: steve f

Big Ed Delahanty had some big numbers.

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Posted By: peter chao

Guys,

We should e-mail this thread to the Hall of Fame. I like Bill James's idea, the Hall really belongs to all baseball fans. There really should be some provision for fans to vote on Hall of Famers. Let me put it this way, we can't mess things up more than prior Hall of Fame voters. There are at least 50 guys there right now that don't belong.

Peter

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Posted By: DJ

Ed Delahanty is in already and the Hall doesn't care what we have to say.

I will go with:

Pete Browning
Ken Williams
Buck O'Neil
Harry Stovey
Roger Maris
Shoeless Joe Jackson
Tony Mullane

I don't want to see Pete in. This is like the whole Susan Lucci thing. We will bypass him until after his death and then put him in.

They did the cruel deed to Leo Durocher, Leon Day and probably Buck O'Neil.

DJ

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Posted By: Chad

This is off the top of my head, and I'll try to clairfy things later, but I can't resist jumping in quickly now.

My guys:

Dummy Hoy
Lip Pike
Pete Browning
Tony Mullane
George Van Haltren
Jack Glasscock
Harry Stovey
George Gore
Mike Tiernan
Dick Redding
John Beckwith
Alejandro Oms
Oliver Marcelle
Chet Brewer
Dobie Moore
George Scales
Quincy Trouppe
Luke Easter
Alan Trammell
Joe Gordon
Bert Blyleven
Goose Gossage
Tony Gwynn
Cal Ripken
Lou Whitaker
Mark McGwire
Dick Allen
Ken Boyer
Ron Santo
Andre Dawson
Bill Freehan
Bobby Grich

Pete Rose and Joe Jackson and Ed Cicotte are good enough to be HOFers, but they ahve issues, obviously.

Yeah, I know that's a lot of guys, and I'm probably missing a couple others I like. Ideally, I would replace some guys in the Hall who I don't think are as good with the above guys, but, of course, that's not possible. Rube Marquard, I'm looking at you!

--Chad

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Posted By: steve f

"Ed Delahanty is in already and the Hall doesn't care what we have to say."

Now that's just plum embarrasing. Who was the old timer I was thinking about... I'm going back to my Beanie collection now.

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Posted By: dd

Deacon Phillipe
Sherwood Magee
Gavvy Cravath
Bill Dahlen
Lefty O'doul
Ron Guidry
Joe Wood
Joe Jackson
Pete Rose
Ed Cicotte

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Posted By: Jason L

Joe Wood
Joe Jackson
Ed Ciccotte
Lefty O'Doul
Pete Rose (ya don't have to like the guy, and I don't)
Rich Gossage
Ron Santo
Gil Hodges
Jim Rice
Andre Dawson

Remove:
Fisk

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Posted By: steve f

Fisk?.. He's exempt from removal now that a part of Fenway is named for him.

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Posted By: peter chao

Guys,

You've got to be kidding, Carlton Fisk was one of the best catchers ever. There are a dozen other catchers you would remove before you removed Fisk.

Peter

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

The HOF should consider creating a Pioneers of the Game section and include deserving AA members that have been excluded for so many years. If you look at the enshrinees of the HOF there are plenty of marginal players in there. The 19th century HOF players all have great stats (pitchers with 300 wins and hitters with high BAs) but there are a few from the 19th century that, based on the existing membership, should be in. Bob Mathews for example is 3 games shy of 300 wins. If he had 300 wins he'd be in already. There are a lot more players. Bob Caruthers has a lifetime win percentage of near .700 and he's not in. He's got over 200 lifetime wins and less than 100 lifetime losses. Only one other player has done (Pedro Martinez) this and he's still playing. Pedro's 8 losses from leaving that elite group of two. Those are just two pitchers. There are plenty of hitters which can easily have a case made for them.

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Posted By: Paul

Leon Day was informed of his election to the HOF on his death bed. He died before the induction ceremony, but by all accounts I read he fully understood he was elected and was very happy.