Clemente: Inner circle of the elite, or on his way?

[cammb]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

At least I didn't say it on the postwar forum. But seriously all the Ks notwithstanding he's maybe marginally in the top 25 as a pitcher IMO. Comparing him to Seaver is like, I don't know what, comparing Andy Warhol to Monet or something.

Didn't he have a couple of no hitters with all of those ks.

[cammb]

IMO the Clemente rookie is the MOST over valued card in the hobby. Baseball is all about stats and his are just not there.

[Anish]

Originally Posted by cammb

IMO the Clemente rookie is the MOST over valued card in the hobby. Baseball is all about stats and his are just not there.

So, you think people are inflating the price? Is it really that hard to believe that more people collect Clemente because of his story than players with similar stats?

I personally find it an unattractive card, but I would rather a Clemente RC than that of any Post-War player not named Jackie, Willie, or Mickey.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Anish

So, you think people are inflating the price? Is it really that hard to believe that more people collect Clemente because of his story than players with similar stats?

I personally find it an unattractive card, but I would rather a Clemente RC than that of any Post-War player not named Jackie, Willie, or Mickey.

As a 13 year old kid at his first card show (at the coliseum motor in for those who might remember), not knowing a thing about cards older than 1972 other than that they existed, I was completely taken in by the Clemente rookie card - of all the cards in the room - A couple of hours of begging my mom - who almost had us both certified insane, and $48 later, I had the card that started it all for me - and yes, I still have it - refuse to get it graded and although I have many rarer and worth more, still the card with the most meaning in my entire collection. I still love looking at the card - Not sure exactly why, but one of the most attractive cards imo - Topps ever made.

[icollectDCsports]

Originally Posted by hcv123

I still love looking at the card - Not sure exactly why, but one of the most attractive cards imo - Topps ever made.

I think it's a cool card: Clemente is one of my favorite players and the '55 set is my favorite set of the '50s.

[pokerplyr80]

I dont see his hobby status changing much in either direction. He's top 5 for postwar players in terms of popularity and collectibility, but we will never be as popular as Mantle, Cobb, Ruth, or Gehrig. And as others have mentioned I wouldn't put him ahead of Aaron, Mays, Williams, or DiMaggio personally.

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by cammb

IMO the Clemente rookie is the MOST over valued card in the hobby. Baseball is all about stats and his are just not there.

All about stats. Disagree with you there.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by cammb

IMO the Clemente rookie is the MOST over valued card in the hobby. Baseball is all about stats and his are just not there.

There are innumerably more examples than Clemente in baseball, let alone all other sports that disprove that. Popularity and collectabilty can start with stats but likability, character and story cement demand in many cases.

As stated already, this stats argument on Clemente is null and void. He is an icon because of his life and person. That is why he is valued and should be.

Completely different sport, but as an example, is the demand for Brian Piccolo's rookie to easily sell for hundreds in an 8 because he had 4 TDs in his career or for him as a man? Are Moe Berg's cards worth anything because he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn or that his story is perhaps one of the best secrets ever disclosed?

Intangibles.

[hedgefund96]

All,

I just want to say that I truly enjoy this thread and reading all of the opinions...

[cammb]

Originally Posted by JustinD

There are innumerably more examples than Clemente in baseball, let alone all other sports that disprove that. Popularity and collectabilty can start with stats but likability, character and story cement demand in many cases.

As stated already, this stats argument on Clemente is null and void. He is an icon because of his life and person. That is why he is valued and should be.

Completely different sport, but as an example, is the demand for Brian Piccolo's rookie to easily sell for hundreds in an 8 because he had 4 TDs in his career or for him as a man? Are Moe Berg's cards worth anything because he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn or that his story is perhaps one of the best secrets ever disclosed?

Intangibles.

Since you say that the stats argument in null and void, it must be true. Because the man died on a humanitarian mission doesn't explain the crazy value of his cards. HOFer -yes. Thousands of dollars for his cards- NO!

[hcv123]

While he may not have been the greatest player - he WAS a GREAT player (statistically)! The stats have been mentioned earlier in this thread. In addition to that he 1) Loved and was more passionate than many about the game of baseball and playing it. 2) He was a great role model and face of the game. He fought to maintain his individuality and pride while making any celebration about his fans and family. 3) He gave back in ways that few players do, ultimately giving his life while trying to help on a night that most people were busy partying. His life story is one of achieving the American dream and then dying tragically. Every bit a GREAT player AND so much more. Deserving (imnsho) of being as popular in the baseball card world as he is.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by cammb

Since you say that the stats argument in null and void, it must be true. Because the man died on a humanitarian mission doesn't explain the crazy value of his cards. HOFer -yes. Thousands of dollars for his cards- NO!

Then explain.

[Johnny630]

His Topps Rookie is expensive becasue it's a hard card. Aaron way more easy in 54 same with Banks and Kaline. 55 Sandy Rookie Way more easy along with Harmon.

Find me a centered limited print issue Clemente Rookie, not easy to find. People pay up for it all the time. Nice 8's will prob settle back to the $20k range.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Part of it is that he had that intangible quality -- I'm not sure it can be translated accurately, but the Spanish word I have seen is duende. It even comes through on some of his cards I would say.

[hedgefund96]

Thinking about buying this...

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by JustinD

There are innumerably more examples than Clemente in baseball, let alone all other sports that disprove that. Popularity and collectabilty can start with stats but likability, character and story cement demand in many cases.

As stated already, this stats argument on Clemente is null and void. He is an icon because of his life and person. That is why he is valued and should be.

Completely different sport, but as an example, is the demand for Brian Piccolo's rookie to easily sell for hundreds in an 8 because he had 4 TDs in his career or for him as a man? Are Moe Berg's cards worth anything because he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn or that his story is perhaps one of the best secrets ever disclosed?

Intangibles.

Hell, Joe Namath is pretty much the ne plus ultra of modern FB cards and he was a pretty mediocre Quarterback.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by cammb

Didn't he have a couple of no hitters with all of those ks.

Seven of them, plus a lifetime opponent's BA of .203. Those Angel teams he played on were really pretty bad. Only he and Bob Feller could get away with walking that many batters and perform as they did--that takes "stuff" in spades.

Hi guys,

Larry