Cabinet Photo help....bought something on a whim!

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Posted By: Dave F

Ok...need some help from the experts. I bought yet something else on the spur of the moment. Probably got a bad deal out of it..but live and learn. There is writing on the bottom...last name is Simon. I'm trying to find out first if this is Mike Simon?? If so...Peoria I would guess would be from the minor leagues before his playing days up in the bigs?

Also...if anyone knows what this is? Just a general cabinet photo? Some type of issue? Any idea on value?

My luck would be it's not even a ballplayer..but some goofy guy in a suit that had his picture taken for his mother.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Looks like a goofy guy in a suit.

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Posted By: Dave F

Damn...I was hoping not to hear that Barry!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dave, that was very unkind of me.

It looks like a rather handsome man in a suit!

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Posted By: Dave F

Ok...I found Mike Simon's Sporting Life card (via vcp)...anyone think this is the same guy? I know a real photo would be better to compare to..but this is all I have.

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Posted By: Mark T

that may be a match!!!!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dave- I just went to my 1910 Spalding Guide and found a picture of Simon, and I have to tell you he looks like the guy in your photo. It might be him. He wasn't born in Peoria- did he play there before his career began in 1909?

Based on the M116 it's a perfect match. See, you should never listen to me.

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Posted By: Max Weder

I dimly recall that there was a recent auction in the last few months on ebay where Mike Simon was featured on a minor league team cabinet photo. I'd like to think it was from an Illinois team. Does anyone else remember that, or am I off base?

Max

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Definitely a very close resemblance, and the cabinet card is from the correct period. Good chance it's Mike Simon. Try and connect Mike to Peoria, which had a minor league team back then.

The Peoria ball club was part of the Illinois/Iowa/Indiana league, and Mike was born in Indiana. And Peoria did produce some future major leaguers, including Joe McGinnity.

One of the most standard ways to differentiate between someone and a lookalike are the ears-- the ears usually differ between people. These two guys have the same size ears plus the same cleft chin.

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Posted By: Dave F

I haven't been able to find Simon's playing record anywhere before the big leagues...is there a site for that anyone knows of?

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Posted By: Dave F

This was the auction....the buyer listed a page of "stats"..but too small to read.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=280125300027&rd=1&rd=1

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dave- I have a complete run of Spalding Guides- I'll check a few pre-1909 and see if I can find him with Peoria. I'll get back to you.

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Posted By: robert a

That has to be the same guy.

It's a pretty neat piece in my opinion.

Rob

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Posted By: Zinn

Didn't you buy it from Rhys? Maybe he has more info.

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Posted By: Dave F

Thanks Barry. I think the seller in the auction mentioned 1905.

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Posted By: Dave F

I just noticed that's who the seller was. I haven't ever dealt with him before this one.

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Posted By: JK

Rhys knows his stuff - I think youve got yourself a ballplayer.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dave- great news. The photo you bought is the actual plate photo used in the 1907 Spalding Guide for Simon as a member of the 1906 Peoria team!.

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Posted By: Dave S

The Peoria Chiefs were (still are, Ryno is the Mgr.) minor league for the Cubs during that period, Simon is NOT on their all-time roster. There was also a semi-pro team called the Distillers same period, Iron Man McGinnity played for them but don't know about Simon..

I'll stand corrected here, the all-time Peoria roster I checked only goes back to 1917, Simon would've clearly been earlier!!

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

You bought it from Rhys so you can be pretty certain that it is who he says it is. I'm sure he knows the provenance.

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Posted By: DMcD

Found what you are looking for. Caught for Peoria in 1905, '06 & '07. Nice photo, Dave!
http://tinyurl.com/yw5tb4 (comes up as .pdf, try look page 2)

(Little known fact: Following his baseball career, he went on to play Klinger on MASH)




Edited for tiny url
Edited to be a wise ass

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Posted By: davidcycleback

It's a cabinet card of Mike Simon. The two images match, the cabinet is the correct age, we now know Mike Simon played for Peoria and, per eBay description, the photo came from a collection of Peoria player photos.

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Posted By: Joseph

Nice! Here's his picture from the 1906 Spalding Guide. I BELIEVE the cabinet photo is the portrait used for the Sporting Life Card.

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Posted By: JK

I would say the fact that the photo was used in the spaulding guide (per Barry's post) is pretty conclusive.

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Posted By: Dave F

Thanks guys. I will assume at this point it is the same player. I don't know Rhys but I have read enough of his stuff on here to think he know's what he is talking about and did some researching himself.

Question is...Barry..."the actual plate photo used in the Spalding Guide"-
basically Barry you might as well be talking Japanese to me....I am completely uneducated with photo's to begin with...so have no clue as to what that means or value (hopefully worth around the $100 I spent)

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Posted By: Dave F

Also....can a cabinet photo like this be graded? And it so...I'm pretty sure the writing on the bottom (although helpful in determining it's Simon) would totally downgrade it being slabbed?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Joseph- if you are able to post the team picture from the 1907 Guide you will see an exact match- that's the photo they used.

Dave- I just saw your question. Each year the Spalding Guides were loaded with photos of major and minor league teams. In the 1907 Guide there is a composite photo of the Peoria team. A composite is made by laying out individual photos of players and reshooting the image. The photo that was used for Simon in this composite is not similar to yours- it is identical to yours! For all we know, that could be the exact one used for the Spalding Guide.

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Posted By: Joseph

Don't have the 1907 Guide available to me...(I took the 1906 pic from the Library of Congress site)

But Barry, do you agree that that Sporting Life card is ALSO from the same source photo?

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Posted By: barrysloate

The Sporting Life is at a slightly different angle and in uniform, vs. Dave's street clothes pose. Unfortunately, I can't scan my Guide because it is bound together with other guides and is fragile. Isn't the entire run of Guides online? Some technological whiz (not me) should be able to post it.

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Posted By: Dave F

Barry...makes more sense to me now. Is it worth the $100 I spent even with the writing across the bottom?

by the way...I'm not even sure of the dimensions of the photo. wasn't in the listing but am curious to find out.

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Posted By: barrysloate

If it's worth $100 to you then it's worth $100.

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Posted By: Dave F

Wasn't a great ballplayer..but did have some nice cards made of himself!





cards scans courtesy of vcp

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

It's possible that the online Spalding database doesn't include the 1907 guide because nothing comes up for 1907 for "Peoria" or "Simon".

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/spaldinghtml/spaldinghome.html

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I think it's worth more than you paid. It's a fine pickup, as minor league era cabinet cards of future Major Leaguers are rare.

I think Rhys should cancel the sale and relist it with all the info we've discovered in this thread

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Posted By: Dave F

By the way...I should mention. I don't have any plans to sell this (sorry already got two emails)....I haven't even paid Rhys for it yet....and actually this looks kind of cool...may stay with me for awhile!

Of course...the only dissapointing fact of it all, he wasn't on a T206!!!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dan- it's on page 208 of the 1907 Guide.

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Posted By: Dave F

ok..since you guys have done so well with the questions...one more

Anybody know if this is a singular cabinet photo? Or would the team have all the players produced? I'm assuming there wouldn't be a set or series of these inparticular?

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Posted By: barrysloate

To create a composite photo you would need an individual photo of every player on the team. Then the photographer would lay them out artistically and reshoot the image.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Ask the seller, as it sounds as if he had a lot of player photos. Teams would have their players go to the studio and have their photos taken, both in uniform and not. If this came from a series of identical style cabinet cards of Peoria players, yours would be an official photo for the Peoria baseball team.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

This thread gives me an idea for the memorabilia board...

Post your photos of minor leaguers who went on the the majors.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dan- This thread reached 40 posts in a matter of an hour or two. If it were started on the Memorabilia thread, was there any chance of that happening?

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Posted By: Dave F

Barry...there may have been 20 between you and I...ha ha

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Posted By: barrysloate

Perhaps, but I was making the point that the other Net54 board is not often visited.

Maybe Leon could tell us how many people check in to the Memorabilia board vs. the Card one.

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Posted By: quan

if it wasn't simon the major leaguer were you gonna renege on the deal like the t206 autograph?

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Posted By: JK

that was a tad gratuitous.

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Posted By: Dave F

Quan....No, I wasn't going to "renege" on the deal since Rhys didn't mislead anything in the auction. But thank you for your smartass question.

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Posted By: Dave F

Does anybody know if cabinet photographs like this are gradeable? Maybe as uncirculated typed or something?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

PSA might put it in a holder, and either give a 1-10 or authentic grade. SGC might as well. Give them the link to this thread if need be, as you can quote me, for one, that it's really Mike Simon

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Posted By: Dave F

David,
I was almost thinking more along the lines of SGC? Seems PSA is a nightmare when dealing with anything non-conventional.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I've seen both companies holder studio cabinets. It's just that they'd have to be convinced what it is. I know PSA has turned down photos, not because they're weren't original, but because they weren't convinced of the identity of the person. It's also something that would look nice professionally matted and framed.