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  #1  
Old 01-15-2003, 09:16 PM
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Default The T207 Printing Process

Posted By: Geoffrey Litwack

Does anyone know about the printing methods by which the T207s were produced? Were they engraved? Was the text on the back typeset by hand? I nosed around the wonderful cycleback.com for info, but to no avail.

This set could be my next big project. I've been a pre-WWII collector, and would like to now give a pre-WWI set a try. Before I plunge in, I want to learn everything I can, starting from the beginning. Just in the couple of months I've been reading this forum, I believe I've soaked up a lot of knowledge - so thank you to everyone!

Geoffrey

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Old 01-15-2003, 09:27 PM
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Default The T207 Printing Process

Posted By: Hankron

I haven't owned a single T207 in years (I hear Bob has them all), but they are lithographs, likely made in the same essential way as the T206s-- though obvioiusly with a different color choice. Presumably, the text on the back was typeset.

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Old 01-15-2003, 09:36 PM
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Default The T207 Printing Process

Posted By: runscott

Can legitimate ones ever be found without the cracking?

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Old 01-15-2003, 09:43 PM
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Default The T207 Printing Process

Posted By: Hankron

During this period, most of the tobacco card and similarly colorful candy cards (E95, Tango Eggs,etc) were lithographs. The Cracker Jacks, Exhibit Cards and most of the newspaper/magazine cards (Sporting News, Sporting Life, etc) were photoengravings. Lithography and photoengraving were competing commercial printing processes/technolgies-- like Interet Explorer versus Netscape, or Ford versus Chevrolet. Back then, they each had about equal market share and had the corner in different areas (tobacco products = lithography, publishing = photoengraving). Photoengraving died out commercially years ago, but lithography is still used. Almost all of today's trading cards are made with lithography, though in a different form then circa 1910.

So, if you see an old tobacco or candy card that looks similar to a T206, it's safe to call it a lithograph. If you see an old card or premium issued by a newspaper or magazine, it's safe to call it a photoengraving.

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Old 01-15-2003, 09:45 PM
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Default The T207 Printing Process

Posted By: Bill Cornell

David-

If T207's are lithographs, where are the original photos they were based on? I've never seen a single one.

As points of comparison:

- many T205's are lithographs from Paul Thompson photos (some of these can be seen in Donald Honig's Classic Baseball Photographs: 1869-1947)
- many T206's are lithographs based on Carl Horner photos (Plank and Wagner are the most obvious examples)

My contention is that T207's are not lithographs, but instead are "real" paintings (for lack of a better word). As far as I know, no one has ever cited a photo any of the cards were based on.

And, TBob's effort to the contrary, this is not a set any sane person should go after... Good luck in any case, Geoffrey.

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Old 01-15-2003, 09:49 PM
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Default The T207 Printing Process

Posted By: Hankron

I think I caught my error, as, I beleive, Ford issued Chevy-- but, you should get jist of the analogy anyway.

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Old 01-15-2003, 09:49 PM
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Default The T207 Printing Process

Posted By: Geoffrey Litwack

Thanks for the info. I've been doing a little research, and all the work that went into those little cards is really quite amazing.

Geoffrey

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Old 01-15-2003, 10:02 PM
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Default The T207 Printing Process

Posted By: Hankron

The T207s, which definetely have a painting/artistic quality, may have been based on actual paintings. As was discussed in an earlier thread, many of the T206s images were reproductions of embellished/colored photographs while some may have been based on color sketches (perhaps, the artist using a photograph as an basis for the sketch). Anyone looking at a the E106 Ty Cobb knows that the original art was no photograph.

In this type of lithography, the technology used was the same, but the original art (whether painting, sketch or real photograph) could differ-- thus the difference in appearance between a T206 Head Shot and a E106 Ty Cobb It's kind of like the 1950s Topps. The printing technology was the same, but the original art differed. The images on the 1953 Topps cards were reproductions on actual paintings that Topps commisioned (many which still exist), while the 1957 Topps were reproductions of photographs (many of the original negatives still exist). And the 1958 Topps, with it's photographic image of a player surrounded by solid color, is a reproduction of a painted phtograph.

It's kind of like using your scanner. If you scan a photograph, you will get digital image that looks like a photograph. If you scan a painting, you will get a digital image that looks like a painting. The technology is the same (in fact you used the exact same scanner), but you were reproducting two different items.

So, it's very much possible that the T207s were based on original paintings that the tobacco company commisioned.

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Old 01-15-2003, 10:06 PM
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Default The T207 Printing Process

Posted By: Hankron

Also, I'm not claiming that the E106, T207 and T206 were made using the exact same techniques down to the tiniest detail. I'm just saying that they used the same period technology. It was possible the T207s, T206s and T205s were all printed by the same printer.

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Old 01-15-2003, 10:26 PM
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Default The T207 Printing Process

Posted By: Hankron

One other point then, then I promise I'll be quiet. It is possible, though less likely, that the T207s were 'handmade lithographs.' This would mean that the image was drawn by the artist (using special lithographic tools) directly onto the printing, then these handrawn plates were used for the printing. This is the way famous artists like Picasso and Chagall made orignal plates. It's also the way the Allen & Ginter cards were made. Still, this would been the basic period lithography, but using a different technique to create the image.

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