T206 Joe Doyle NY Americans

[tcdyess]

Need some help here. I have been seeing very high prices on this card in the PSA 4-6 range compared to other cards with similar populations. PSA (SMR)has the card as a PSA 5 at $135 and PSA 6 at $225. The prices I have been seeing are multiples of this including a current 6 from Memory Lane at $2600+. Is PSA behind in updating this card, or is the market completely out of whack?

Thanks for any input...

Tim

[AndyG09]

Tim,

That is a difficult common. I would say the SMR is not close to realistic in anyway in regards to this card. Due to the Doyle variation, many of these cards were removed from the market (or so I have heard) quite a while ago. The SMR is a joke for sure on this card.

Best,

Andy

[tedzan]

This card's prices as a PSA 5 at $135 and PSA 6 at $225 are somewhat low.

This card is certainly less available than many other T206's because many of the regular Joe Doyle cards
were either "doctored" to resemble the "N.Y. Nat'l"....or, were confiscated in the process.

Whatever, this card with a Grade 6 at a "$2600+" price is excessively high.


TED Z

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Expect to pay $150-$200 for a 40 and go from there. Recent a board contributor sold off his with all the back variations. He could give you the best idea on the market of the cards.

Lee

[tcdyess]

Thanks for all the input, i figured SMR was low, but still can't see paying 5x plus for a PSA4.

Thanks,

Tim

[sreader3]

Another footnote. Ted's research has revealed that Doyle (N.Y.) is not a garden variety 350-only subject, but rather a subject that was intended to be a 350/460 regular print subject but removed early from print (and therefore never printed with 460 series backs). This is known because the Sovereign 350 back on Doyle (N.Y.) is apple green, which is characteristic of 350/460 RP subjects, rather than forest green, which is characteristic of 350-only subjects. [Other shortprinted 350-only subjects having apple green Sovereign backs include, by way of example, Nichols and Rhoades (Right Arm Extended)].

The long and short of it is that even before the reported hoarding and possible destruction of Doyle (N.Y.) specimens in the 1980s, the population was probably only about 2/3 that of a typical 350-only subject.

[Bridwell]

Larry Doyle has 2 poses that are considered commons, so your low price estimate is typical for those. Joe Doyle (with hands raised) is a lower population card so is worth much more. I've seen a few people get confused between the Larry and Joe cards. Even PSA sometimes labels a Larry Doyle as "Joe". Hope that helps...

[shaunsteig]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Another footnote. Ted's research has revealed that Doyle (N.Y.) is not a garden variety 350-only subject, but rather a subject that was intended to be a 350/460 regular print subject but removed early from print (and therefore never printed with 460 series backs). This is known because the Sovereign 350 back on Doyle (N.Y.) is apple green, which is characteristic of 350/460 RP subjects, rather than forest green, which is characteristic of 350-only subjects. [Other shortprinted 350-only subjects having apple green Sovereign backs include, by way of example, Nichols and Rhoades (Right Arm Extended)].

The long and short of it is that even before the reported hoarding and possible destruction of Doyle (N.Y.) specimens in the 1980s, the population was probably only about 2/3 that of a typical 350-only subject.

Thank you all for the T206 insights. So just to clarify -- a given player would have only the apple-green or the regular-green, but would not exist with both?

and would the apple-green sovereign back of a common player have any added value over a regular-green sovereign back of a common player? I've seen the apple-greens incosistently touted as being a premium value when being offered for sale.

I've also found similarly re the SMR failing to recognize "premium" commons -- eg Merkle portrait, Putmann, Reulbach glove shows, Schulte front view to name a few. For this set in particular, with all its variations, I find VCP particularly useful.

Thanks,
--S

[sreader3]

I don't think there would be much of a premium for apple green over forest (regular) green in general. However, the handful of 350-only subjects that are available with apple green backs are certainly more difficult than the 350-only subjects that are available with forest green backs. These include Doyle (N.Y.), Nichols, Rhoades (Right Arm Extended) and a couple of others that I can't think of right now [I think Kleinow (N.Y. Catching) and Smith (Chicago White Cap) might also be in this group].

[shaunsteig]

Thank you Scott. The complexities of this set are just daunting at times, but I appreciate learning a little bit each time.
--S