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#51
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: JimCrandell
Matt, |
#52
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
I have a dream, |
#53
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Jason L
An ant can lift 50 times its own weight |
#54
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Steve
Jim |
#55
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
Steve, |
#56
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Steve
Corey |
#57
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
Steve, |
#58
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
I don't have a problem with Jim not taking a financial hit by resubmitting his cards cold. It's his life, his family and only he is reponsible for both -- we cannot expect him to put some moving definition of baseball card nobility ahead of what is best for his family. |
#59
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Steve
What amazes me, especially with all the lawyers here (real and imagined) is how |
#60
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: MikeU
Steve, |
#61
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Steve
Hey I called it as I saw it. Or, more importantly as I read it. |
#62
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: JimB
Steve, |
#63
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: TFerg
I think Steve has it nailed. As far as trying to "please the masses" , I think that's taken care of. The masses couldn't care less, it's the few that have a problem from what I can see. |
#64
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: JimCrandell
Its not the few that have the problem its the few that have the opportunity. |
#65
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: barrysloate
I think the win/win concept is what is troubling many of us. |
#66
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Steve
Jim has a way with words. |
#67
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: JimCrandell
Steve, |
#68
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
Jim B, I'm more than happy to call Joe Orlando. I had asked Leon to do it because I thought representing this board he would have the most credibility. Then when Joe did not return his call, I thought Steve, based on his comments that Joe always returned his calls, would have a good chance of getting through. If that doesn't work or if Joe doesn't fully respond, then I have no problem placing the call. |
#69
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Kevin Saucier
There may be an easy way to test the system and keep this broken record from playing over an over. |
#70
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: barrysloate
Go for it Kevin, and please let us know the results. |
#71
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Matt
I was hoping for Matt Sears to do that with his fake PSA "National Game" Joe Jax, but it seems he did not. Kevin - let us know what happens. |
#72
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Steve
based on his comments that Joe always returned his calls, |
#73
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Steve
Rather it was Jim C's description of his deal with PSA that raised (at least in my mind) the question whether PSA would knowingly return altered cards in their original holders. |
#74
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: JimCrandell
Ugh!! |
#75
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
"Why Joe hasn't replied to Leon? I don't have an answer for that I do know he replies |
#76
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: JimCrandell
Uh Corey--Doug Allen admitted on the board to altering cards in the past--Joe Orlando's company is trying to stop these altered cards from getting through. Very hypocritical(ha ha). |
#77
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: barrysloate
Steve- I think Corey and I are trying to make the same point, perhaps worded a little differently. |
#78
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: leon
I think you summed up the whole issue perfectly. I think we should take a snapshot of this last post you made and speak to it. Had this been a situation where PSA was doing something unbiased it would have been better than the stacked deck they are playing with, so to speak. It's a win win for PSA and their customers but a "win win lose" for the hobby, imo. This PSA half grade service isn't about making past wrongs right though....it's ONLY about the bottom line. (which I totally understand) regards |
#79
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Jay
I have been reading the thread and not posting, but one of Jim's last posts raised a question for me. Jim--You said that 8.5s are very desireable (no doubt) and that they would trade for a premium over 8.0s. You also said that 8.0s would not decline in value. If you are correct in both cases, and I have no reason to believe that you are not, then PSA, by altering their grading system, has created value out of thin air. Some portion of the old 8.0s gain value, the rest stay unchanged in value. Lets say that $X in value in aggregate is created. PSA gets some portion of this through their grading fees. The rest, I assume, is coughed up by registry set junkies hungering for an extra half point here and there. Pasteur was wrong-spontaneous generation does exist. |
#80
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: JimCrandell
Jay, |
#81
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: barrysloate
Jim- you are articulating the problem. |
#82
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: JimCrandell
Its like resubmitting all of your cards but putting a minimum grade requirement of 8.0--whats wrong with that? |
#83
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: barrysloate
Actually, while it is a common practice, and I thought of it as I was posting, I think there is something wrong with that, and I always did. |
#84
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Jay
Jim--I hope the way the market prices cards going forward is that 8.5s are worth more than 8.0s and 8.0s are worth less than they used to be. That way there is no value created and the system is fine. My sense is that as this year rolls on both 8.0s and 8.5s will be worth less than 8.0s were last year, based on the economy, and seperating out the impact of PSA's actions, everything else held equal, will be impossible. |
#85
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: JimCrandell
Jay, |
#86
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Al C.risafulli
I do think it is a little bit apples and oranges with respect to calling it the equivalent of a review with a minimum grade requirement. |
#87
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: JimCrandell
Yeah, |
#88
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
Barry, Al, you say it very well. |
#89
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Dan Bretta
I have no dog in this fight as I really couldn't care less...put me in the Frank Wakefield/Dan McKee card grading sucks boat, but I have to say that PSA offered a new service - half grade bumps - that's all you're paying for and that's all they are offering with this service. Why should PSA go beyond that with this service? If they stand behind their product then there is no reason to look for alterations if they have already in the past deemed the card to be unaltered and gave it a grade. Quite simply they are looking at cards that were not good enough to be bumped to an 9, but they could be better than the 8 they were originally given because at the time they didn't have half-grades. Of course this was a transparent means for them to fleece the registry folks and knowing the competitive nature of their customers they knew it would work and it has. It's nothing more than that....PSA will NOT and probably should NOT answer Corey's questions from a business standpoint they have nothing to gain. |
#90
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
"PSA will NOT and probably should NOT answer Corey's questions from a business standpoint they have nothing to gain." |
#91
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: JimCrandell
I think its funny that when someone agrees with you that the person says they say it well even if they have a hard time putting together a coherent sentence(maybe I am guilty of this too). |
#92
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Jerry Hrechka
I believe that PSA has changed their Flips, so as time gos by it will be possible to tell which cards have been submitted for the .5 Bump & which don't qualify for the upgrade. |
#93
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Steve
based on his comments that Joe always returned his calls, |
#94
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: JimCrandell
Don't worry Steve--he will find another reason to start a thread criticizing me very soon. |
#95
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
"I don't think you will be seeing them downgrade any cards or take any cards out of circulation either." |
#96
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: JimCrandell
PSA is evaluating cards for a half-point bump(or perhaps more)--nothing else--thats what this is all about--not determining if they made a mistake on a card at some point in the past. |
#97
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: barrysloate
Isn't part of cleaning up the hobby correcting errors? That doesn't seem so farfetched. |
#98
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: Dan Bretta
Barry, PSA is not involved with the "Cleanup" of the hobby. In case you hadn't noticed. |
#99
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: barrysloate
I have noticed. |
#100
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PSA vs. SCG -- Discount Valuation
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
So, on that note maybe we have arrived at the answer which was the question of this thread -- over time, if not already, PSA cards WILL sell at a discount relative to SGC cards. |
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