RobertS Stereoview Info.

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Posted By: Jaime Leiderman

Robert, Photograph depicts a game at the House of Refuge in Rochester, New York. c. 1874

View is similar to other stereoviews attributed to Rochester famous photographer F.W. Bacon, that depict a game between "Colored" and "White" youths at the same facility. (Lots#232/233 - Mark Rucker's Collection Auction, November 1995)

Early images depicting black players in action are pretty difficult to find.

Hope this helps!

Jimmy

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Posted By: RobertS

Jimmy--

Thanks for all this info -- where did you ever find it? I've seen the other image you reference [I believe it was sold a couple of times, once by Mastro and once by Robert Edwards Auctions(?) ]

Great stuff -- one question, does this image you posted in this thread depict two white teams or two black teams?

It's hard to see detail in the shot. I believe the man in the bowler behind first base line is white, but can't see the players' faces.

At any rate, I can't belive you nailed it so fast from my description in the chat room!

Lastly -- does that setero view book you suggested include a section on old sports cards within?

Thanks again,

Robert

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Posted By: Jaime Leiderman

Robert, it was a mixed game with both colored and whites on the field.
Dark hats were used by the black team, while the jockey style caps were worn by the white boys.

It's maybe the earliest photographic image of blacks playing baseball.

The House of Refuge in Western NY was a massive complex orphanage established after the Civil War to care for abandoned and orphaned children.

Forgot to mention that closer shots of the same game were made in Carte-de-Visite form by the same photographer. (See Lot#145 Rucker's)

CDV style is very rare. ($2k and up)

Stereoview form from Bacon can go for over $1.5k

Your image was published by Webster & Albee while the most expensive ones were published by Bacon & Carnall.

About the book... It's the best stereoview reference material out there, but doesn't have a specific section on sports views.
Photographer alphabetical listing is a great reference while trying to date an image.



Jimmy

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Posted By: RobertS

Thanks for the ultra-fast response...I guess this was a really good flea market find!

Just curious: Do you know if Webster & Albee had permission to publish the image, or if they just did it on their own. Also, do you think the card is 1870s or 1880s, then?

You win the price for fastest researcher in the West ! It took you just five minutes to find the image and just a few hours to garner all the relevant facts!

Thanks again...

Robert

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Posted By: RobertS

Jimmy-

Either way, you still win it...!

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Posted By: Jaime Leiderman

Found this on Webster & Albee:

Charles R. Webster and Josephus Albee were a major publisher of pirated copies of views. Much of their activity in printing copy views was centered in Rochester, New York. Confusion exists because Webster and Albee also issued views from original negatives, but often the quality was low.

Your stereoview card is from the 1880s by looking at card mount style, color and printing.

Guess they didn't pay F.W. Bacon a penny for the image... and you have to thank them for that!
They gave you the opportunity to own a magnificent image for half the price!

This is why I like collecting early baseball photography... Research never ends!

Now go buy a cheap stereoviewer and enjoy the 3D image!

jl

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Posted By: RobertS

The dealer wanted to work a trade for the stereo view:

I gave him four modern Topps VG baseball cards (1966 Frank Robinson, 1970 Willie McCovey All Star, 1972 Sparky Lyle, 1973 Rod Carew)...

Three Hollywood items (an early 1950s Topps Eve Arden card and two 1950s Star Decals of Kirk Douglas and Jayne Mansfield in original envelopes)...

And threw in $120.

So how much will an old stereoviewer cost? I only have two other stereo view cards to use with it, however. Of course, it's a great excuse to start collecting a whole new line of stuff!

RobertS

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Posted By: runscott

but I would be careful about spending too much on them - they are usually available fairly cheap (under $100 even for really nice ones).

David Rudd knows a lot more about these -hopefully he'll chime in.

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Posted By: RobertS

Thanks Scott...I don't know much about this area.

I only own two others (the Keystone card of Babe Ruth & Tom Mix you often see around, and another of American soldiers playing baseball in Europe in WWI, also quite common). I intended to bid on that Yankee Stadium and Gehrig views (also Keystone), but they quickly soared out of my stratosphere on eBay.

I'm probably not going to go crazy in this area, I just spotted this one and couldn't resist since it was clearly a professional photo and has a whole bunch of interesting elements: uniformed teams, crowd ringing the outfield, bowler-hatted manager on first base line, umpire, equipment near home plate, etc.

I plan to be just as stingy as in any of my other areas of limited-budget collecting!

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Posted By: runscott

Stadium view of Chicago NL vs New York NL game that the President attendeded. I think it was 1908 - Mathewson and Brown pitched. Went for about $52.

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Posted By: RobertS

I just saw it under completed items -- pretty cool and a decent price. Whenever I've seen any on ebay that I liked, they skyrocketed.

Obviously, since I'm not a collector of these and don't know much, I'm not about to follow the bidding up into the stratosphere...