State of the Hobby

[Steve D]

I've noticed recently that Levi at 707 Sportscards has been taking best offers in his ebay auctions. He has in fact, in two instances that come immediately to mind, accepted best offers on very popular pre-WWII cards.

We all know and love Levi, as he is one of the absolute best dealers in the history of the hobby. I've bought from him on ebay, and have always received superior service. He is not however, known for having what would be termed the lowest prices around, nor is he really known for haggling on prices. His price has always been his price, and if you didn't like it, then you could always go somewhere else.

What does this mean for the hobby in general, that Levi is now showing a willingness to haggle on prices. Is this a sign that the hobby (pre-war in particular) is now showing scars from the ongoing economic situation in the United States? Or is it just a sign that Levi is sitting on so much inventory, that he is wanting to unload some of it?

I just wanted to hear some thoughts on this.

Steve

[53Browns]

You're right Steve, I have bought from him as well and with 707 I know I can always count on two things. First, not many price breaks and second, a solid experience with good material offered. If you have spare cash lying around (I don't darnit), this is a GREAT time to load up. Actually, has a similar experience a month ago. I bought a 1954 Bowman Peewee Reese PSA 8 (OC), it was a different seller but he was askign $125 and I made an initial offer of $75 and he took it immediately. I was surprised. I expected a counter offer. I think I got a good deal.

[53Browns]

I just checked and over 25% of his Ebay listings are now "accepts best offer."

[tbob]

I have noticed more than just 707 taking best offers, several sellers who used to run cards with way too high prices are now accepting decent prices for "best offers."
I have also noticed that although pre-WWI cards are holding pretty steady, 1933-1960 cards are really selling for great prices now (for the buyers). I have no clue why that is but Diamond Stars, Tattoo Orbits, DeLongs, Goudeys, etc. are really selling for relatively lower prices.
It's a good time to be a buyer.

[jheffron]

There is more of an opportunity to deal in a rough economic time. Because sellers have gotten accustomed to a nice cash profit look for better material to surface so that cash will continue to flow. Should be good times to buy.

[HRBAKER]

To me it is like any other inventory driven business, when sales slow your profit is tied up in inventory. This should be particularly true for sellers who have multiple copies of the same card at the same grade. The trouble with many still is that a 25% discount off of their asking price can sometimes be multiple of what the card "retails" at.

[Section103]

I havent experienced his willingness to deal just yet. I made an offer 75% of his B-I-N price and completely in line with VSP (I was slightly over) and he came off $6. That's his right, but Ive come to accept the fact that we're just not going to make a deal.

[quinnsryche]

I have not bought anything from Levi but I will say I make VERY reasonable Best Offers and am continually turned down or come back with ridiculous counter offers. BMW Cards on ebay is a prime example of ridiculously overpriced cards ($250 for a SGC 60 common) and just as ridiculous counter offers ($225-$200).

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

I have not bought anything from Levi but I will say I make VERY reasonable Best Offers and am continually turned down or come back with ridiculous counter offers. BMW Cards on ebay is a prime example of ridiculously overpriced cards ($250 for a SGC 60 common) and just as ridiculous counter offers ($225-$200).

Unless you are dealing with a true grade rarity, patience will pay dividends.

[JasonL]

it would make sense that if multiple sellers with historically high prices are now trending towards making deals to move inventory, then we are only at the beginning of what may potentially turn into an extended buyer's market.

[glchen]

I don't know about 707 now being reasonable. I've made best offers too that were a little below average selling price (hoping that he would counter at average selling), but he never counter offered. Of course, his prices are twice what others sell at, so I think he still is very over-priced.

I think in general though (w/ my entire 2 months of collecting experience), the market is a little softer, so it's a buying opportunity. There are still certain cards and types that are hot, and still hard to buy at good prices, however.

[Leon]

I have known Levi several years and have not a bad word to say about him.

Maybe it's as simple as he wants to sell more cards so is accepting offers when previously he didn't?

I should also add that Levi and I have always gotten along very well.....I think he's a nice guy.

[FUBAR]

ok the state of the hobby truly has nothing to do with 707, poor guy. I think the state of the hobby, for dealers in general is tough. There is no such thing as paying "retail" anymore. Ebay/ the internet in general has done away with "retail" prices and i dont envy them with what they have to compete against. So if a guy is offering discounts, it is simply what the market is dictating. He hsa to pay the rent/mortgage/ mistress just like the rest of us!

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by FUBAR

He hsa to pay the rent/mortgage/ mistress just like the rest of us!

Speak for yourself; I don't pay rent...

I think we've been in a buyers' market for some time on most all common issues and if some of the stalwart "museum of overpriced card" owners on Ebay are starting to discount their exhibitions we may be in a period of deflating prices for a while on those issues.

I am being very, very patient about buying mainstream cards. If I don't see anything at my (lowball) price I don't bother. I've succeeded in picking up some cards I've always wanted to own (1952 T Robinson, 1957 Mantle, etc.) in presentable condition at very low prices. There are lots of them out there, you just have to be willing to stick to your price points and keep bidding. It's even better in the other sports. I snagged a nice 1959 Topps Jim Brown for $9.99 a few weeks ago.

[Jewish-collector]

I have known Levi since the early 1980's, when he worked in construction full-time and was a dealer part-time. Perhaps he's getting tired of the business and is thinking of getting out ? Maybe I'll ask him when I see him at the National in Baltimore.

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by Section103

I havent experienced his willingness to deal just yet. I made an offer 75% of his B-I-N price and completely in line with VSP (I was slightly over) and he came off $6. That's his right, but Ive come to accept the fact that we're just not going to make a deal.

The most he has offered to deal on any card I've been interested in was $5, and the card was already overpriced 4-5x. I have noticed 50's baseball cards can be had at great prices if you find the right seller. I've been buying '52 and '53 Topps off of sellers recently for great prices after emailing them with an offer.
when sellers like Mike wheat and 707 actually drop their starting prices then I will think the economy is haveing an effect.

[nolemmings]

I've been able to deal with 707 a couple of times this year, and once with Mike at BMW too. Granted, these guys are not giving their stuff away, but we reached a price acceptable to both sides.

I agree with Jeff and Leon, this is most likely just an effort to move some inventory. I would like to see it develop into a trend, especially among others who continue to price their stuff way too high.

[MW1]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

I have not bought anything from Levi but I will say I make VERY reasonable Best Offers and am continually turned down or come back with ridiculous counter offers. BMW Cards on ebay is a prime example of ridiculously overpriced cards ($250 for a SGC 60 common) and just as ridiculous counter offers ($225-$200).

Thank you for your feedback. My counter-offer on the card you have referenced was $150, which you declined.

[Matthew H]

He may have realized that if he is going to bother listing cards on eBay, he may as well try to be competitive. I have never bought from him at a show but love his setup

I have made offers to him on ebay but his counter offers are too high. There are alot of desperation sales on ebay so why buy his cards when with a little patience you can get the same card same grade for alot less? (I mean VERY little patience, It doesn't take long to find a better price on ebay)

Look, this card lasted about ten minutes with this BIN:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Babe-Ruth-1933-G...item230762d84b

I could not buy it at the time but the seller told me that he just really needed the cash right now.

[hunterdutchess]

Any guesses to how much 707 would make if he sold all of his cards at auction starting at .99 ?? Gotta be close to a few million ??

[botn]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Look, this card lasted about ten minutes with this BIN:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Babe-Ruth-1933-G...item230762d84b

Don't think the Ruth is good.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by botn

Don't think the Ruth is good.

That was my initial thought. Very foggy picture/scan for such an expensive card.

[rdixon1208]

I didn't think the Ruth was good either. Looks like a fake slab

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by rdixon1208

I didn't think the Ruth was good either. Looks like a fake slab

Now that people are saying this I'm thinking that price was too good to be true.
The cert # checks out, Maybe he switched the card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

30-30 centering, not good for a fake.

[calvindog]

The Ruth is a horrible fake. The flip is a horrible fake. Look at the font!