lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........

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Posted By: scott ingold

I found this on the cu boards and know it wont last long. My ? is how many auto's have actually been looked at ? I mean if they are just slapping peoples names on the stuff. What about Spence ?




Bill Miller, former publisher of Autograph Collector magazine (owned by Collectors Universe) is suing Collectors Universe (parent company of PSA-DNA). Bill has told me that THOUSANDS of COA's with his facsimile signature were issued by PSA-DNA. The number of items he examined was ZERO. Why has PSA implied that autograph authorities are examining the autograph submissions that they receive? Mr. Miller's attorney has deposed the head of Collectors Universe and will be deposing Joe Orlando, the president of PSA-DNA. Why would PSA put facsimile signatures on their COA's of people who never looked at the item? Now the question is, did Jimmy Spence, Steve Grad,Zack Rullo, Bob Eaton, John Reznikoff, etc. look at an item that has their signature on the COA?

Here is a press release from the law firm that represented Bill Miller: Former Collectors Universe Executive Wins $10.5 Million Verdict; Boudreau, Albert & Wohlfeil Represents Plaintiff SANTA ANA, Calif., Nov 09, 2005 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Boudreau, Albert & Wohlfeil LLP announced today that an Orange County jury awarded a former executive of Collectors Universe, William Miller, with awards that could total in excess of $10.5 million against Collectors Universe [ CLCT] . The jury found that Collectors Universe used Miller's name on 14,060 Certificates of Authenticity without his permission. "We are grateful that the jury saw fit to hold Collectors Universe accountable for its actions," said Andrew Albert, lead attorney on the case and partner at the law offices of Boudreau, Albert & Wohlfeil LLP. "Their verdict is an important step in allowing Bill to reclaim his good name and to protect the public from false authentication services." In his suit, filed August 2004, Miller alleged that Collectors Universe placed his name and signature on Certificates of Authenticity which indicated that he had examined items being authenticated, when, in fact, he had never performed a single authentication for the company's PSA/DNA Division, under which the certificates wer! e issued. Miller's suit alleged violation of his right to privacy by misappropriating his name. Under California Civil Code section 3344 compensatory damages of $750 per unauthorized use are presumed. In addition, court costs and attorney's fees are recoverable. The jury found that Miller had been harmed by Collectors' unauthorized use of his name. The court has previously ruled in the first phase of the trial that for each unauthorized use of his name, Miller may recover $750. The jury also awarded Miller Collector's profits made through the use of his name. Attorney's fees may also be added to the judgment. Miller said he feels vindicated by the clear-cut jury verdict. "It's horrible enough to have your name taken from you purely for someone else's financial gain, but it's another thing to be used as a pawn to deceive or even defraud the public. ! For the rest of my life, I will live with the uncomfortable feeling that at any time I might be held responsible for someone who authenticated an autograph I never looked at. When an item turns out to be not genuine, as we have already found to be the case in a number of instances, it's my name which will bear the responsibility and my reputation, carefully built over 15 years, which will be damaged." SOURCE: Boudreau, Albert & Wohlfeil LLP

A QUESTION FOR PSA: Facsimile signatures of their authenticators are printed at the bottom of the COA's. Who is authenticating these autographs? Collectors don't you want to know who examined your autograph? Is it a former hotel autograph chaser examining your autographs? They have such people on staff. Is it someone who authenticates autographs with barely a look? Is it someone who examines autographs under glass, without removing the glass first, to see if the signature is printed? Their most experienced authenticator is no longer with the company.
Bill Miller's name is on thousands of COA's. He never examined an item. A question for Spence, Rullo, Grad, Epperson, Reznikoff, Eaton, etc. whose names appear or have appeared on PSA COA's. Are you examining the items that have your name on the PSA COA? Mr. Miller did not examine any items

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Posted By: jay behrens

The real question is, will this get the appriotately large headlines it deserves in SCD and elsewhere, or it will it be buried or not even reported on?

Jay

I'm incompetent at being incontenent.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Maybe I just don't get this:

"The jury found that Collectors Universe used Miller's name on 14,060 Certificates of Authenticity without his permission."

Do you mean to tell me that it took over 14,000 COAs to be sent out before Miller figured this out?

In the name of common sense, we've beat PSA/DNA like a dead horse in this forum (in the past) because many felt that you can't blanket entire auction lots of hundreds of autographs with one COA (as was a practice in the past) and now Miller wants a pound of flesh because his name is on over 14,000 COAs. What's he saying? Is he saying that he no longer believes in the authentications that took place?

"Their verdict is an important step in allowing Bill to reclaim his good name and to protect the public from false authentication services." Hahahahahahahaha.... what a joke!

In his suit, filed August 2004, Miller alleged that Collectors Universe placed his name and signature on Certificates of Authenticity which indicated that he had examined items being authenticated, when, in fact, he had never performed a single authentication for the company's PSA/DNA Division, under which the certificates wer! e issued. Miller's suit alleged violation of his right to privacy by misappropriating his name.

Believe me when I say I'm no PSA/DNA fan. In this case a past officer of the company suing because of the reason provided just seems a bit ridiculous and the courts finding in his favor is even more so ridiciulous. They're all out of order....

If Leon doesn't kill this thread... let the comments (blasting) begin....

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

That's why I collect cards and NOT autographs!

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Posted By: leon

Since PSA is the largest grading company and a lot, if not most, of the board uses them at least sometimes, why would I delete this? If they screwed up again shouldn't it be made known? If SGC or GAI did the same thing (and I don't think they will) then I would let that go too. This is not really a biased board as some others are, in that respect....except that the majority of vintage folks prefer SGC for obvious reasons....regards

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Posted By: Anonymous

Spence is now working for SGC...(or sub-contracting his services to them)

http://www.sgccard.com/news.htm

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Posted By: jay behrens

I'm sure this guy didn't have a problem with his name on the COAs until he got uncomfortable with the number of fakes that were turning up with his fake sig attached.

Jay

I'm incompetent at being incontenent.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Moderator Dude,

The only reason I referenced the possible deletion (by you) is because the post was not directly related to cards and in the past we used to make a blood sport out of "bashing, trashing, thrashing" and otherwise pushing the envelope with our written attitudes about PSA and PSA/DNA in general. Now if the law suit was about PSA card grading services it would be wide open on this board. Since it was PSA/DNA autograph services I wasn't so sure you'd allow it.

Thank you for not shutting this one down. I can't wait to see the comments on this ridiculously stupid (my opinion, of course) law suit.

Thanks,

Someone that doesn't mind to see a good PSA/DNA bashing

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

I have always stayed as far away from autographs and memorabilia. I know my signature changes from day to day so how can someone actually authenticate something that is known to vary as much as a signature? There are other issues as well that raise questions as to authenticity of memorabilia but that's for another discussion. I do not know Miller's reputation but I do not hold any of those who authenticate autographs and memorabilia as experts. Just not sure it is really possible to be an expert in that field but I may be totally ignorant.

Another suit in which CU has been found negligent and the public is still left holding the bag. Based on recent court proceedings it would seem that CU's actions have harmed the reputations of certain individuals. Earlier this year it was Real Legends with regards to the WIWAG debacle and now this. I am glad these folks are being made whole if they were truly injured but what about the collectors who have WIWAGed cards and now the thousands of lucky owners who have Miller LOA's for items he is alleging he never saw?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Sometimes you will see a lot in an auction catalog that contains, for example, 1500 3x5 index cards each with a ballplayer's signature. The lot description might then conclude "Comes with COA from (whomever)" But if you decide to break up the lot and sell them individually you would need 1500 COA's so that each collector has one to go with his purchase. How does this work? Is this COA photocopied by the auction house or by the new owner? As you can see, I've never bought an autograph lot myself so I have no clue.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I understand Miller's objection and would be against my name being used on LOAs like that. However, when I saw one of these LOAs I interpreted it to mean that the faux signatures was merely a list of employees and those who had not hand signed had not examined the autograph. Kind of like a standard company stationary will list as part of the letterhead the founder and president, even though the letter contents may be the secretary asking for more dixie cups for the employee lounge.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

1. I LMFAO when I read this. 14,000+ bad certs? OUCH!
2. Just when you think the slime can't be any deeper...Couldn't happen to nicer guys.
3. Out of an abundance of caution I would urge people here NOT to send ANYTHING to PSA until this is all sorted out because the items may end up in limbo. $10.5 million is a heck of a lot of money for such a shaky company to have to pony up, and it is enforceable virtually immediately. An appeal bond for that verdict would be about $15 million plus appellate costs and attorneys' fees, and the bonding company would require PSA to post clear collateral equal to that sum. Absent a bond, the sheriff's collectors can be sent into PSA's offices to start stripping checks from the incoming slabbing items, their bank accounts can be drained, all property seized and/or liened, etc. This usually has the effect of either forcing a company to file a bankruptcy petition (which requires court approval to continue operations) or it throws a hell of a monkey wrench into their operations as they are stripped of cash. Regardless of what you think of PSA, the victims of this are likely to extend to anyone with cards there now or in the near future.

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Posted By: DJ

As far as the comments above (BOTN), I can tell you that there are experts in the business that have a great deal of knowledge and can tell in one second whether something is good or something is bogus. A good authenticator takes his job very seriously and as none of us I'm sure can tell the difference between an Elmyr de Hory forgery (back to painting) and a Modigliani, there are those who posses the eye for being able to tell the difference between an authentic Bambino and a forgery.

Even a novice collector can look for things in a signature like appropriate slants, skips, stops and perhaps a slow hand "drew" that signature where a person who has signed his/her name a million times would not be unfamiliar with the writing of one's own name. With "Babe Ruth", you have to be 8-8 in a convincing speed and if you butcher up the "u"...this provides some question. With a good trained eye and a good exemplar collection, a good authenticator can be born.

I can tell you first hand that this business is...well, a mess and while I do have one big toe in the collecting world of autographs, I prefer cards so much more even though many of you can question how an authenticator can tell the difference between A (worth $2,000) and B (worth nothing), how can baseball card folks tell if an O.J is trimmed or if there's a miscut or if a T206 is in fact 1/32nd of an inch off and deemed a trim. Did I mention that the autograph business is a mess?

It's all about educating yourself, relying on the words of "experts" and any collectible field has them whether it be Pez dispensers, milk cow dispensers, first editions, jazz albums or non-sport war trading cards.

My two cents.

DJ

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Posted By: barrysloate

Adam- Are you saying there is a realistic possibility that PSA could go under?

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

That might be a little extreme,considering the company has $67,000,000 in cash? Are you trying to start a panic?

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

They have an insurance policy in place. I have not looked at their financials and while 10.5 is a good chunk of change they have some cash, credit lines and a market cap of over 100 mil. I am sure they will weather this storm too. They always seem to land on their feet no matter what is tossed their way.

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Posted By: DJ

But if you decide to break up the lot and sell them individually you would need 1500 COA's so that each collector has one to go with his purchase. How does this work? Is this COA photocopied by the auction house or by the new owner? As you can see, I've never bought an autograph lot myself so I have no clue.

Well Barry, you would get one LOA that simply brings forth the vital information that "PSA/DNA" has authenticated the entire 1500 lot. It's called a "Blanket LOA" and would mention some of the keys (Lemon, Kaline, Leonard, Bell, Piazza etc., were included). The document would be original and signed by one of the authenticators.

Now if you wanted to sell off the lot, the seller would usually photocopy 1500 of these letters and include it in the sale of one of the purchases. So if you bought the Al Kaline, the seller would give you a copy of the LOA. The question of course is: Can't this seller simply "say" it's from the lot and give you a blatant forgery? That's the HUGE problem with blanket LOA's and I believe PSA/DNA is being taken to court by seller Bill Daniels for a purchase he made with Mastro that included a "Blanket LOA".


DJ

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

IMHO WIWAG was much more severe and PSA seemed to rebound even stronger. Hard to see how this could Bankrupt the company. Even if they had to sell off divisions, there would be a line of people ready to buy the card grading division. Although, GAI and SGC could gain some market share from this.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Ever try to get an insurer to pay off, even if there is coverage?

The easiest way to make the money flow is to start grabbing it wherever it can be found, and tapping the till at PSA and freezing their bank accounts is the cheapest and easiest way to go about it. It also has the added benefit of disrupting their business and spurring them to do what it takes to pay off. The lawyers are in Santa Ana; expect them to do what is easiest and quickest to get to the money.

The stock dropped nearly 9% today.

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

In my limited scope as a business manager I have had no problem getting insurance companies to pay off. 10.5 million was not at stake but there were solid six figure settlements involved. CU's insurer already paid out 600k to Real Legends.

I suspect CU has access to cash if they had to make this go away. If what Charlie says is right, that they have 67 mil in cash and equivilents then 10.5 is nothing to close down doors over.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Going back to that 1,500 autograph "blanket LOA/COA"...

If they spent only 1 minute looking at each item (that's taking time to pull it, look at it, put it back and go on to the next one) then it would take them 25 hours to go through 1,500 autopgraphs. I realize that the 1,500 is an arbitrary number but I've heard of LOAs covering hundreds of autographs. Do they really expect us to believe that they looked at every one of the autographs and spent enough time to actually determine whether or not the autograph was authentic? I heard they'd charge a small fee for the blanket LOAs which means that they probably didn't examine every piece as the LOA might have implied. Its all BS and so is Miller for trying to push a law suit that states that 14,000+ LOAs later his name has possibly been damaged... maybe after the first few hundred or even less, but not after 14,000+ have gone out...

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Posted By: davidcycleback

The beginning and the end is to purchase a autograph from a known to be respectable seller who has a lifetime guarantee of authenticity. Most respected autograph dealers have this lifetime policy and some autograph dealer groups require a member to have such a lifetime policy. That collectors are buying Mickey Mantle autographs from a seller with a 5 day return window and using a spin wheel to pick a seller, is a deficiency of the sellers as much as anything else

It's not much different than early baseball cards on eBay. Folks like Lew Lipset, Scott Brockleman, Tic 'n Tic and Mark Macrae auction cards on eBay and anyone is welcome to bid. That there are bidders who skip these sellers in order to bid in no return private auctions and on AAA paperstock cutouts and color Fro Joy Babe Ruths is a expression of the buyers' ignorance more than anything else about the baseball card hobby.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

then PSA is covered. If there is even arguable coverage, then the insurer almost certainly handled the defense once the claim was tendered to it, or at least did not object to CU's choice of counsel and general defense.

CU will appeal and the insurer will post a bond to forestall execution on any judgment, assuming the verdict actually gets reduced to a final judgment.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Warshawlaw,
At June 30, CLCT had $65 million cash on the balance sheet. They raised money in a stock offering several months ago. Since they have no viable acquisition candidates and growth in their business doesn't require much capital, I figured they were hoarding cash for some unknown reason. Then WIWAG and now this. I wonder what is next. At least they're good for the bond

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

First off, PSA isn't going under. 10 mil is hardly a drop in the bucket but not the end of the world to a company of the size of PSA. Next, the funniest thing about the 'article' which started this thread is the fact tht it was a press release from the law firm that represented the plaintiff. How ambulance-chasing lame is that? God help me the day that I have to put out a press release and circulate it on the net the next time I have a good day in court..sheesh.

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Posted By: WP

I agree with the above posts with regard to PSA not going under as a result of this judgement. The real problem as I see it is IF this lawsuit was not disclosed by PSA at the time of the second public offering. That could lead to fines and a potential class action lawsuit which under the right circumstances could bankrupt the company,

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Posted By: Patrick McHugh

would you buy clct (psa) stock right now. I would wait to see how this plays out.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Why on earth would anyone buy the stock? It's hardly a growth company. Their idea of revenue growth is to get into the sealed, wax pack grading game. Hooray!

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

If you think the stock is going to dump then sell it short...

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

CU disclosed in their May 2005 10-Q filing with the SEC the results of the Real Legends case. Was mentioned in earlier filings as well. I did not see mention of the Bill Miller suit until thier Sept 2005 10-K filing.

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Posted By: WP

BOTN,
That's scary and possibly securities fraud. Did David hall sell shares when he knew that this lawusit was pending and not disclosed? If so, he should probably start looking for a good criminal attorney.

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Posted By: Anthony

I think it's time for a management shakeup at PSA, starting from the top.

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Posted By: Rick

Judge Rules That Headline of Press Release Prepared by Attorneys for Former Executive Concerning Verdict is Misleading



Judge Orders Plaintiff's Attorneys to Retract Misleading Headline
NEWPORT BEACH, Calif., Nov. 9 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Collectors Universe, Inc. (Nasdaq: CLCT), a leading provider of value-added authentication and grading services to dealers and collectors of high-value collectibles, today announced that an Orange County, California trial judge presiding over a case brought against the Company by a former employee, has issued an order that the headline of the press release, such release prepared earlier in the day by Boudreau, Albert & Wohlfeil, attorneys for that former employee, is misleading.

The Judge's order states, in part, that:

"The jury did reach a verdict in this matter on November 7, 2005, finding
that 14,060 certificates of authenticity were issued by Collectors
Universe, Inc. using William Miller's name and awarded Plaintiff
William W. Miller only $14,060 for disgorgement of profits. The jury has
not rendered a verdict for $10,500,000 or any amount other than $14,060.
Furthermore, the jury was discharged on November 7, 2005, the verdict was
adopted by this Court and the Court will determine the amount of damages
awardable under Civil Code section 3344."

The Judge also ordered the plaintiff's attorneys to retract the misleading headline, contained within their press release, announcing the $10.5 million verdict.

As disclosed in the Company's Quarterly Report on Form 10-Q filed today with the Securities and Exchange Commission, despite the assertion of plaintiff's counsel that he is entitled to recover damages in excess of $10 million, the Company continues to believe that it will not incur any material liability to plaintiff in this case. However, there is little interpretive history with respect to the California statute, creating a number of relatively novel legal issues. As a result, it is not possible to predict, with certainty, how the Judge will ultimately rule on the issue of damages.

About Collectors Universe

Collectors Universe, Inc. is a leading provider of value added authentication and grading and certain related services to high-value collectibles and other high value asset markets. The Collectors Universe brands are among the strongest and best known in their respective markets. The Company authenticates and grades collectible coins, sports cards, autographs and stamps and, with its acquisition of GCAL, now also authenticates and grades diamonds. The Company also compiles and publishes authoritative information about collectible sports cards and sports memorabilia, United States and world coins, and entertainment memorabilia. This information is accessible to collectors and dealers at the Company's web site, http://www.collectors.com, and is also published in print. In addition, with its acquisition of the "Palmieri's Market Monitor" the Company will also be publishing authoritative information about diamonds.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Is the above a press release from CU? The moral of today's story is to not mistake a press release for a independant news article.

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Posted By: Rick

it came from msn.com...

10.5 mill did seem like a lot regardless...but i guess you never know

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Posted By: davidcycleback

With respect, PR Newswire, short for Public Relations Newswire, is in the business of publishing press releases for companies.

There's nothing wrong with press releases, but they can be as reliable an information source as an an athlete's agent at contract time.

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Posted By: Anonymous

The Company also compiles and publishes authoritative information about collectible sports cards and sports memorabilia

..what the SMR...LMFAO

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

The Short-sellers of CLCT might be in trouble if the damages awarded are $14,000 vs. $10,000,00? I am amazed at how many people are rooting for this company to implode? Based on the facts, those same people might want to re-cork the champange bottles. This ruling wouldn't put PRO Grading out of business.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Well, as I had said, when a lawyer must resort to creating his own press release in order to get out the news on a 'win' in court, that usually means that the mainstream press doesn't care - and usually there's a reason why they don't care, like in this case, the ambulance chaser got caught in a lie (shock!). If that is the reason the stock got pounded today, tomorrow will be a very ugly day for the shorts who jumped in this afternoon.

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels

Anthony
(Login ANexANex) Re: lawsuit against psa for 10.5 million awarded to........ November 9 2005, 10:50 PM

I think it's time for a management shakeup at PSA, starting from the top.

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Posted By: BlackSoxFan

Okay, i'm not saying this will bankrupt PSA..but let's play hypothetical.... PSA goes buhbye. What happens to the whole industry. I'm sorry, but i can't imagine that PSA going out of business wouldn't have a major impact. I am not smart enough to say what that impact is. But.. do you think there is a made rush on their inventory? Do people like Levi drop their prices dramatically? Is there a rash of widespread cracking... what happens?

Regards,

Black Sox Fan

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email me

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Posted By: WP

People will always collect cards. There was a thriving card industry before PSA and if something happened to PSA the market will adjust. It might be healthy in the long un if the set registry madness cooled off.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I was thinking (as the stock market is about to open in two mins) that the reason for the drop yesterday may have been leaked info about lousy earnings. We'll see how it opens today. If it continues to go down (CLCT stock) then obviously the lawsuit was not necessarily the catalyst.

Next, even if PSA went bankrupt, the Set Registry is a valuable asset and would be bought by one of the companies left standing and would remain intact in some fashion.

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Posted By: Green Eye Shade

More than the court verdict, the reason for the stock decline seems to be a weakening in CLCTs earnings performance. Versus the comparable quarter last year CLCTs operating income is down almost 50%. Much of this is the result of increased general and administrative expense. Digging a little further, half of this general and administrative expense increase results from the costs associated with Sarbanes Oxley compliance. This shows the impact of increased government regulation on small business.
CLCT does not report this large a decline in earnings because of the substantial increase in interest income resulting from what they are earning on the funds from their recent stock offering. The quarter to quarter comparisons are actually worse than portrayed in the press releases since they compare quarter to quarter earnings per share on a fully diluted basis (reflecting the additional shares from the stock offering) but only the current quarter has this additional interest income from the funds generated by the offering. I think it would be more meaningful to compare undiluted prior quarter earnings with diluted current quarter earnings which would make the performance look even worse. This, in my opinion, is why the stock is going down.

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Posted By: Jim F

As far as I understand, only $14 000 has been awarded so far. The $10mil is a bit premature. As far as the talk of CU going under, even if they do eventually go under, PSA will be spun off and continue business as usual. Psa card grading is still a solid business for the right people. Jim

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Posted By: BlackSoxFan

I'm not implying that the card industry would be ruined or that it would disappear. I don't think interest or volume of transactions would change. However, some major changes would occur. That I am sure of. What those changes are I am not sure. Yes the hobby would go on. How people acquire cards would not. I don't believe the prices they pay would change significantly would...however something would change. Imagine if Ferarri immploded and all the dealerships/service stations closed. Now Aston Martin and Mazerati would be forced to develop new dealerships..etc..etc..blah blah blah blah.

Regards,

Black Sox Fan

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email me

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Short

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Posted By: leon

If something happened to Collectors Universe I don't think it would have a long term bad effect on PSA card grading. My computer company I work for declared chapter 11 three months ago. We declared chapter 7 three weeks ago and were bought by a billion dollar company. Why? Because we have a good profitable business that was being run into the ground. PSA will survive regardless of CLCT. regards

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Posted By: William Heitman

It's not just a problem with autographs. When PSA was first starting up, they were practically doing handstands to get to grade the T206 Wagner that McNall and Gretzky had just bought. I happened to know the pedigree of the card and knew that it had been trimmed. The guy who was going to grade the card stopped by my home on the way to PSA headquarters to grade the card. He knew that the card had been trimmed, but told me PSA had to grade the card because the good publicity that would come from grading the card was all that was important and, besides the card was within the size limitations for T206. I told him that the smaller ones were all American Beauty and he responded that PSA was going to grade the card. I actually talked once to Bruce McNall about this and he acknowledged that he knew the card had been trimmed. So PSA, the owners of the card and the grader of the card knew it was trimmed. But put some plastic over it and all was forgotten.

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Posted By: leon

That is an amazing story of the card....thanks for posting it....any other comments? regards