SGC T206s....It needs to be brought up, it's scary, very scary if you are a collector

[CMIZ5290]

I'm really surprised nobody has brought this subject up. But, most members on this Forum seem to prefer SGC. SGC cards are bringing a fraction of what PSA cards sell for, primarily in high grade...

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I'm really surprised nobody has brought this subject up. SGC cards are bringing a fraction of what PSA cards are selling for, and I mean a fraction. I have said on this forum for years that PSA is far superior, extremely better resale value, but this latest trend is crazy, believe me. I actually think it's going to get worse. SGC 84's for $250-300? I have observed a lot of recently graded SGC t206s.....Ridiculous, not even close to PSA. I have a lot of SGC graded T206s, and I have been losing my ass. PSA will not cross them, so do you grab your nuts and crack them?

I don't collect T206's, but have thought about it on investment purposes based on the factors you stated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Econteachert205]

Kevin, I have of course noticed the same price gaps between sgc and psa. Just curious why they won't cross?

[pokerplyr80]

It's not just 206s either, I have noticed the same trend on many pre and post war cards. I'm not sure if it's due to the PSA registry or the perception that the standards are tougher at PSA. But it's clear that if you're buying cards as an investment PSA is the way to go.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

Kevin, I have of course noticed the same price gaps between sgc and psa. Just curious why they won't cross?

I'm sure a lot of it is political, for whatever that's worth. The bottom line is SGC graded cards are nowhere near as strong as PSA, especially right now. There are a couple of T206 HOFer SGC 84's on Ebay right now that are ridiculous looking for the grade.

[Touch'EmAll]

This year I joined PSA and tried to cross a handful of high end cards ($750-$3500.). I only was successful with a Ty Cobb Colgan's Chips going from SGC 88, now PSA 8. There went a few hundred bucks out the window.

But I do know I bought the SGC cards for less - thats why I bought them. So I have decided to pay less for SGC, keep them, and be ok with that. Whenever I do sell, remember I paid less for them to begin with.

My SGC purchases are few these days, way vast majority of my stuff is PSA. For me to buy SGC they have to be 55/45 or better centered, and solid for the grade corners per my own eye. For instance, I picked up a sweet 1955 Topps Aaron SGC 88 that i swear up and down is every bit the equivalent of PSA 8, but I paid less, will keep in SGC, and be happy.

The way SGC grades off center material is one of their biggest pitfalls, they should have had OC designations like PSA - then bet SGC would fare better overall, just my 2 cents.

SGC does, however, grade a few issues PSA does not - I send them to SGC, no problems - example s74 silks, old Wheaties issues.

Pay no more than 80 percent of avg. PSA sales value,get very nice centered items, scrutinize corners with your own eye, then ok to buy SGC.

Done with crossovers, too many certain words exit my mouth. And too much money leaves my wallet.

[Econteachert205]

I collect lower grade tobacco so it effects me less. I can appreciate not wanting to crack and resubmit. I have bought cards graded good and very good that if resubmitted would only grade fair or poor. Again it matters less at the low end but if you have a nm in sgc t206 and you crack and resubmit and it only scores a 6 that could be hundreds of dollars. I have to believe it's mostly a registry issue, I think the bulk of collectors are aware sgc is reputable.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

This year I joined PSA and tried to cross a handful of high end cards ($750-$3500.). I only was successful with a Ty Cobb Colgan's Chips going from SGC 88, now PSA 8. There went a few hundred bucks out the window.

But I do know I bought the SGC cards for less - thats why I bought them. So I have decided to pay less for SGC, keep them, and be ok with that. Whenever I do sell, remember I paid less for them to begin with.

My SGC purchases are few these days, way vast majority of my stuff is PSA. For me to buy SGC they have to be 55/45 or better centered, and solid for the grade corners per my own eye. For instance, I picked up a sweet 1955 Topps Aaron SGC 88 that i swear up and down is every bit the equivalent of PSA 8, but I paid less, will keep in SGC, and be happy.

The way SGC grades off center material is one of their biggest pitfalls, they should have had OC designations like PSA - then bet SGC would fare better overall, just my 2 cents.

SGC does, however, grade a few issues PSA does not - I send them to SGC, no problems - example s74 silks, old Wheaties issues.

Pay no more than 80 percent of avg. PSA sales value,get very nice centered items, scrutinize corners with your own eye, then ok to buy SGC.

Done with crossovers, too many certain words exit my mouth. And too much money leaves my wallet.

I hear you, just out of curiousity, what did you pay for the SGC 88 54 Topps Aaron? Now, what's it worth in a PSA 8?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I hear you, just out of curiousity, what did you pay for the SGC 88 54 Topps Aaron? Now, what's it worth in a PSA 8? Please be honest....

He said 55 not the rookie.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

I collect lower grade tobacco so it effects me less. I can appreciate not wanting to crack and resubmit. I have bought cards graded good and very good that if resubmitted would only grade fair or poor. Again it matters less at the low end but if you have a nm in sgc t206 and you crack and resubmit and it only scores a 6 that could be hundreds of dollars. I have to believe it's mostly a registry issue, I think the bulk of collectors are aware sgc is reputable.

Dennis.....Again, it's about value. I have never said SGC is not reputable, they are, absolutely...What I'm talking about is true value for the dollar, it's not even close....

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He said 55 not the rookie.

Thanks for the clarification Peter, but it really does not matter...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Part of it is that for the most part PSA now has incredibly strict grading standards. Today's 7 is yesterday's 8. I have seen 5s and 6s that are NM to the eye and almost certainly would have graded higher in years past. So in a sense it's not apples to apples, as SGC grading seems to have stayed more consistent.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Part of it is that for the most part PSA now has incredibly strict grading standards. Today's 7 is yesterday's 8. I have seen 5s and 6s that are NM to the eye and almost certainly would have graded higher in years past. So in a sense it's not apples to apples, as SGC grading seems to have stayed more consistent.

Peter, forget all that...Come on...A T206 PSA 7 Cobb vs. an SGC 84 Cobb, same card, same centering, same everything.....Value?

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Part of it is that for the most part PSA now has incredibly strict grading standards. Today's 7 is yesterday's 8. I have seen 5s and 6s that are NM to the eye and almost certainly would have graded higher in years past. So in a sense it's not apples to apples, as SGC grading seems to have stayed more consistent.

not sure about post-war, but modern stuff they're handing out GEM MINT 10s left and right. imo it's great for prewar collectors if the sgc/psa value gap is that big, you get more bang for the bucks with sgc cards.

[Econteachert205]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Dennis.....Again, it's about value. I have never said SGC is not reputable, they are, absolutely...What I'm talking about is true value for the dollar, it's not even close....

Right, so I was thinking of where the extra value came from. If both companies are reputable then there is only a limited amount of variables contributing to psa's enhanced appeal. The registry seems to be the biggest factor. However some of the grading advantages in terms of a lack of qualifiers are also valid for sure. If I was sgc I would certainly take these concerns seriously and take steps to assure customers cards values are protected.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

not sure about post-war, but modern stuff they're handing out GEM MINT 10s left and right. imo it's great for prewar collectors if the sgc/psa value gap is that big, you get more bang for the bucks with sgc cards.

Quan, so you obviously agree about the difference in the value, right? That is all I was trying to state at the beginning of the thread...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Peter, forget all that...Come on...A T206 PSA 7 Cobb vs. an SGC 84 Cobb, same card, same centering, same everything.....Value?

PSA will sell for more but in part that is because there is a perception that PSA is stricter. The registry is less of a factor than it used to be IMO. Many or most of the current major collectors have built their sets and in some cases are getting out. Low pop commons ain't what they used to be.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

PSA will sell for more but in part that is because there is a perception that PSA is stricter.

My perception is I have an SGC 84 Waddell that can be bought for $1250. The last PSA 7 I saw went for over $2500....Perception, or reality???

[68Hawk]

Great news!
SGC is the only way I like to go. Cheaper too? Hell yeh!

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Great news!
SGC is the only way I like to go. Cheaper too? Hell yeh!

Agreed...

[GregMitch34]

If many SGC cards are worth, say, 4/5s of PSA cards, and you pay accordingly, then no problem. That's already been going on. The only question is: are many SGC cards now plunging, or at least declining, in value? Then there's a problem. You paid less for them but now they are not even keeping their half of the "bargain." If that's what's happening.

[t206fix]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walter-Johns...p2047675.l2557

Buy the card, not the holder...

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Dennis.....Again, it's about value. I have never said SGC is not reputable, they are, absolutely...What I'm talking about is true value for the dollar, it's not even close....

I have been arguing this point from the beginning..also on private deals with people here who always argue 'pre-war sgc is just as good' .

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

Right, so I was thinking of where the extra value came from. If both companies are reputable then there is only a limited amount of variables contributing to psa's enhanced appeal. The registry seems to be the biggest factor. However some of the grading advantages in terms of a lack of qualifiers are also valid for sure. If I was sgc I would certainly take these concerns seriously and take steps to assure customers cards values are protected.

I guess buy the holder not the card

[wonkaticket]

The value of most "quality" cards isn't determined by a major TPG holder. Yes will certain cards sell for more over another sure that's the hobby. Will some things in PSA get more due to registry no doubt. In the end if you're buying nice examples of cards in any grade that tick all the boxes (centering, color, register) in either SGC or PSA you will be fine.

[Vintagecatcher]

Has anyone here forgot how PSA launched their brand with the T206 Wagner...strict grades...what BS!

Patrick

[SMPEP]

Sorry Peter, I have to say BS that PSA is stricter. Here's a PSA 7 (HA!) 1952 Billy Martin for you. Who gives a rat's @$$ if the corners are sharp. You can barely make him out because of the OBVIOUS registration errors. (And for the t206 freak collectors - no, this doesn't make this card more vluable - there are TONS of cards like this troughout this set. Dozens are on Ebay right now.)

Heck, even the centering isn't great.

That card grade is garbage.

PSA should be embarassed.

Cheers,
Patrick Prickett (in case I need my full nae on this one)

[1880nonsports]

you were joking right???? Countless examples of inept grading for all the companies - see the last Heritage auction with PSA 7's that have front and back paper loss.
The major TPG's do a decent job with regard to authenticity and more easily discernable faults. You're not submitting to some kind of crime lab - for the ten bucks no-one is taking out the micrometer or neutron scale. ANYONE can render an opinion about a "grade". Such grades really only matter in terms of commerce - buying and selling the commodity.
Historically PSA cards have been shown to bring higher prices on many issues. They were first, better advertised, and developed the wildly successful registry. With the passage of time SGC has taken over the larger share of the more niche-like 19th century market and made inroads in the "T" card market. I think they do a better job, the holders look nicer, they offer excellent customer service. That said - it's a personal preference thing - you align yourself with the company whose condition/grade parameters feel "right".

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

you were joking right???? Countless examples of inept grading for all the companies - see the last Heritage auction with PSA 7's that have front and back paper loss.
The major TPG's do a decent job with regard to authenticity and more easily discernable faults. You're not submitting to some kind of crime lab - for the ten bucks no-one is taking out the micrometer or neutron scale. ANYONE can render an opinion about a "grade". Such grades really only matter in terms of commerce - buying and selling the commodity.
Historically PSA cards have been shown to bring higher prices on many issues. They were first, better advertised, and developed the wildly successful registry. With the passage of time SGC has taken over the larger share of the more niche-like 19th century market and made inroads in the "T" card market. I think they do a better job, the holders look nicer, they offer excellent customer service. That said - it's a personal preference thing - you align yourself with the company whose condition/grade parameters feel "right".

right heres another 'sgc is better for prewar' it is what it is....PSA sells for more than SGC on a large scale.....theres always bad examples for each in terms of why a grade was given.....you can buy sgc cards cheaper for the same grade as psa.... which is fine for the people who want cards cheaper and who believe the card looks the same as the psa counterpart.....really no problem there....just don't expect to get the same money back as the psa counterpart ..it can happen from time to time of course..

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am not joking at all. Ask people who submit regularly (that is, people not getting favors or to put it more charitably benefits of the doubt, and I am sure there are some of those) and they will tell you that these days -- which is all I said in my post -- PSA is very strict with grades. I have seen numerous examples of this.

My observation is not at all contradicted by the fact that in its 24 year history PSA has overgraded many cards or graded many altered cards. Of course they have.

I have no doubt that if you took a cross section of mid to high grade cards with no paper loss or wrinkles, and had someone unknown to either company submit them, the PSA batch would grade lower in the aggregate. That is not a criticism of SGC, just an observation that the grading standards are not the same these days.

And putting up a single example of an overgraded PSA card to prove your point is really not a very good argument. I am talking about overall, in the aggregate, etc.

[rocarroll]

I don't know why PSA's sell for more, probably a "self fulfilling prophecy" because people think they are worth more and should sell for more so they pay more for no other reason than that. It's certainly not for PSA's beautiful holders in comparison to SGC

I keep hearing about PSA being stricter in their grading. I disagree on that, at least in the low to mid grade cards say grades 2-6. SGC has been crazy picky on some of the cards that I have had graded and when it comes to any type of paper loss I've found them to be much harder on that than PSA. I've submitted to both many times and have had many more comparison cards. Depending on the issue(s) that a card may have that usually determines where I send it (that and whether or SGC has a good monthly special ) If the card has a small amount of paper loss I can be certain that SGC is going to grade that 1.5 or maybe 2. I can usually get a 3 out PSA all other things being equal.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rocarroll

I don't know why PSA's sell for more, probably a "self fulfilling prophecy" because people think they are worth more and should sell for more so they pay more for no other reason than that. It's certainly not for PSA's beautiful holders in comparison to SGC

I keep hearing about PSA being stricter in their grading. I disagree on that, at least in the low to mid grade cards say grades 2-6. SGC has been crazy picky on some of the cards that I have had graded and when it comes to any type of paper loss I've found them to be much harder on that than PSA. I've submitted to both many times and have had many more comparison cards. Depending on the issue(s) that a card may have that usually determines where I send it (that and whether or SGC has a good monthly special ) If the card has a small amount of paper loss I can be certain that SGC is going to grade that 1.5 or maybe 2. I can usually get a 3 out PSA all other things being equal.

Fair point. I was not really talking about low grade cards with wrinkles or paper loss, but mid to high grade cards where the grade is going to depend on centering and corners.

[Touch'EmAll]

Kevin, I looked on ebay at the last 4 sold 1955 Topps Aaron PSA 8's. They ranged from $1,366. to $1,654. The SGC 88 I bought in 2014 I paid $850. plus $18. shipping. Bad news is big difference between SGC 88 and PSA 8. Good news is I paid $850. for the SGC 88. I am happy with the card, especially for the price I paid. Whenever I sell the card, I must remember what I paid and adjust expectations accordingly. I would imagine an Aaron run is a super highly competitive arena in the registry game - probably the biggest reason for difference?

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Dennis.....Again, it's about value. I have never said SGC is not reputable, they are, absolutely...What I'm talking about is true value for the dollar, it's not even close....

I'm going to have to agree about the value but then disagree as far as grading is concerned. SGC is far better and light years more consistent than PSA is concerned.

SGC's presentation is far better. PSA's holder I feel keeps the card more secure though.

PSA's resale value is second to none. Why well it's the name of course. It's like selling a Kershaw(PSA) to a Chris Sale(SGC). One is overhyped and loses in the playoffs every year. And one quietly goes about his business dominating. But because the other is from LA (Kershaw/PSA) who gets more attention ????

I'll always like and trust SGC's grading consistency over PSA. I will also note that I will not buy a card slabbed with anything other than SGC or PSA.

[rocarroll]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Fair point. I was not really talking about low grade cards with wrinkles or paper loss, but mid to high grade cards where the grade is going to depend on centering and corners.

Understood. From what I've seen from you and the OP you guys tend to be more involved in the higher graded cards than I am so I have no frame of reference on those 6-8 type grades. I usually spend money on rarer backs and HOF as opposed to the ultra high grade so I've never subbed those high grades.

I have had several situations with paper loss with SGC that floored me with their strict grading. I had a BEAUTIFUL Zack Wheat that had some small paper chipping in the lower right corner. The card looked like at least a 7 it was that nice. But b/c of that small paper chip they gave it a 1.5. And that's just one example.

In regards to PSA vs SGC pricing, in my opinion I for the most part trust both companies grading and review of the cards the same in regards to trusting the card is what it is. If I am buying off EBAY I am not more or less worried about the card if its PSA or SGC. I personally wouldn't pay a dollar more for a PSA over an SGC with the same grade or vice versa if the cards looked to be in identical condition.

There are 2 reasons I have more SGC's that PSA and neither have to do with the quality of the grading. 1 is that normally it cost $17 per card with PSA and I can get it for $10 at SGC with their specials. The second reason is that as the OP said, PSA tends to sell for more so I've been able to get the SGC for cheaper.

[bnorth]

The part I don't get is the PSA people always say my cards sell for more. So what they paid more to get the card. A real comparison would be the difference in increase/decrease in value and not the selling price.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bnorth

The part I don't get is the PSA people always say my cards sell for more. So what they paid more to get the card. A real comparison would be the difference in increase/decrease in value and not the selling price.

paying more for for the same grade for the psa versus the SGC proves they sell for more.

I do agree I don't think grading standards are better for PSA or that their holders are better .....its the analogy of the other thread about would you buy from someone you not like and I said if they are handing you free money or a bargain I think most people would put their feelings behind and buy the card

if a PSA and SGC card were selling for the same price from a private seller and the card looks the same I don't think the SGC lovers will end up buying the SGC card, they will take the PSA card because of sell price...even if they don't like the holder and don't think their grading standards are better.......money talks.

[GregMitch34]

No comparison at all between PSA and SGC values on CJ 14s. Quite stark and one of the most obvious pre-war. I imagine it's the registry.

[bounce]

When you say SGC cards won't "cross", is it safe to assume you mean they don't often crossover to the equivalent PSA grade?

You're not suggesting they won't cross at all, are you?

[glynparson]

I have very little problems getting cards that deserve the grade to cross. If you are picky and dont just assume it's going to cross I have had great success. I'd say around 70-80%. I usually crack those that don't cross and probably get the grade I wanted on about half of those. I have only had one come back altered after cracking I did miss the minor alteration and could see how the graders did as well so it didn't upset me they are human after all. I do agree that over a certain dollar amount they are very reluctant to cross cards. I am talking about under 5 figure cards.

[glchen]

I think if you randomly picked ten T206 cards in PSA 7 and ten T206 cards in SGC 84/7, and cracked them all out of their slabs, and sent them all to PSA, I'd think you'd find a significant number in both samples that would receive a grade lower than 7. I think the grading standards at PSA have gotten tougher in general where it can be more difficult to get cards in higher graded slabs than in the past. Saying that however, every collector who buys cards should look at the card before looking at the grade first. Think about how you think the raw card should grade, and then determine if the grade it did receive merited it. If you have a card that is strong for it's grade in an SGC holder, I would say that it would almost certainly cross over to PSA at that same grade or better.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by glchen

I think if you randomly picked ten T206 cards in PSA 7 and ten T206 cards in SGC 84/7, and cracked them all out of their slabs, and sent them all to PSA, I'd think you'd find a significant number in both samples that would receive a grade lower than 7. I think the grading standards at PSA have gotten tougher in general where it can be more difficult to get cards in higher graded slabs than in the past. Saying that however, every collector who buys cards should look at the card before looking at the grade first. Think about how you think the raw card should grade, and then determine if the grade it did receive merited it. If you have a card that is strong for it's grade in an SGC holder, I would say that it would almost certainly cross over to PSA at that same grade or better.

I just buy sgc cards assuming ill get one grade lawyer with PSA...if sellers don't give value it like that than I don't buy the card...as time has gone on I have found more and more sellers willing to value the card one grade lower...afterall if the sellers are in the business to make money and they know a PSA sells for more..they would of cross graded it for the same grade if they were able or thought able too....thus I ask for the 1 grade lower discount..

[glchen]

Sometimes it's a pain to cross it even if you think the card will cross at the same grade. If you add the shipping costs both ways to the grading fee and add in say a 10% chance that the card won't cross even if you think it should, that's too much risk + cost to many sellers. However, as a card buyer, I agree that if you can get a one grade discount, that's definitely a way to protect yourself.

I don't think anyone sends their cards to SGC thinking they will get a higher grade than they would if they sent the card to PSA. Instead, it's usually they trust SGC to be more consistent with their grading, have better customer service, and get their cards back faster. In addition, if they have mixed size or different service level cards, SGC is more affordable.

[brewing]

I used to send 90% of my submissions to SGC, I now send 90% to PSA.

Outside of turnaround time PSA beats SGC up and down the block in everything else.

In the past 3 years the following actions have taken place by the companies.

SGC:
Revamped registry site, minimal improvement. Still irrelevant compared to PSA.
Changed flip and rechanged after customers voiced displeasure.

PSA:
New case which is harder to tamper with.
New Flip.
Upgraded Registry to allow for photo albums.
Released app that allows you to scan or input the registration number.

To me, it seems like either SGC isn't trying, doesn't want to improve , or is inept at marketing.

Brent Ingr@m

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by brewing

I used to send 90% of my submissions to SGC, I now send 90% to PSA.

Outside of turnaround time PSA beats SGC up and down the block in everything else.

In the past 3 years the following actions have taken place by the companies.

SGC:
Revamped registry site, minimal improvement. Still irrelevant compared to PSA.
Changed flip and rechanged after customers voiced displeasure.

PSA:
New case which is harder to tamper with.
New Flip.
Upgraded Registry to allow for photo albums.
Released app that allows you to scan or input the registration number.

To me, it seems like either SGC isn't trying, doesn't want to improve , or is inept at marketing.

Brent Ingr@m

I agree with everything you said.....plus I wonder how market share is with the 25-45 year olds..who will be defining the buying market the next 20 years..i assuming psa is getting a bigger market share ...

[rocarroll]

Originally Posted by rocarroll

I don't know why PSA's sell for more, probably a "self fulfilling prophecy" because people think they are worth more and should sell for more so they pay more for no other reason than that. It's certainly not for PSA's beautiful holders in comparison to SGC

I keep hearing about PSA being stricter in their grading. I disagree on that, at least in the low to mid grade cards say grades 2-6. SGC has been crazy picky on some of the cards that I have had graded and when it comes to any type of paper loss I've found them to be much harder on that than PSA. I've submitted to both many times and have had many more comparison cards. Depending on the issue(s) that a card may have that usually determines where I send it (that and whether or SGC has a good monthly special ) If the card has a small amount of paper loss I can be certain that SGC is going to grade that 1.5 or maybe 2. I can usually get a 3 out PSA all other things being equal.

Piggy backing on what I said earlier about it being a "self fulfilling prophecy" I really do think it is a heard mentality. People think PSA is better cause that's what other people are telling them. Its almost like certain auctions that take place and their stuff sells for more just because they are selling it. Have you ever noticed when PWCC has an auction on EBAY their cards sell for about 30%or more than they would if I were selling them. I looked at that previous auction that closed recently and compared it to almost identically graded cards selling at the same time by individual buyers and they were going for way more. Tolstoi PSA 3's by an individual selling for in the $80s PWCC going for $110-120. In short its a reputation that has no real gold backing the currency so to speak. People just think its better.

If an industry wide rumor started next week that SGC was better within a month you would see the pricing reverse.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by rocarroll

Piggy backing on what I said earlier about it being a "self fulfilling prophecy" I really do think it is a heard mentality. People think PSA is better cause that's what other people are telling them. Its almost like certain auctions that take place and their stuff sells for more just because they are selling it. Have you ever noticed when PWCC has an auction on EBAY their cards sell for about 30%or more than they would if I were selling them. I looked at that previous auction that closed recently and compared it to almost identically graded cards selling at the same time by individual buyers and they were going for way more. Tolstoi PSA 3's by an individual selling for in the $80s PWCC going for $110-120. In short its a reputation that has no real gold backing the currency so to speak. People just think its better.

If an industry wide rumor started next week that SGC was better within a month you would see the pricing reverse.

when talking about things with no real useful purpose....value is what people will pay for things...so whatever mentality it is why people by things..its the fact they are buying them.....value is what someone will pay for it..so what people think no matter what the reason is what the market is..

[rocarroll]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

when talking about things with no real useful purpose....value is what people will pay for things...so whatever mentality it is why people by things..its the fact they are buying them.....value is what someone will pay for it..so what people think no matter what the reason is what the market is..

Agree with you 100% I think there are two questions, one of which seems to have been answered "yes" by the sell history. Does a PSA sell for higher on average than SGC - yes. The other being is PSA actually better than SGC and actually adds value because of something tangible, i.e. finds flaws that the other doesn't find thus its grades are more legit or is it just because that it is generally accepted to be the case. As you said, either way, the market is the market regardless of the reason. But as anything that doesn't have real value, that is subject to change depending on how the wind blows popular opinion. Spend a lot of money today on PSA because that's the "rumor" and you could lose a lot tomorrow because the "rumor" changes.

[brewing]

I think PSA is the #1 TPG because they innovate and market their product. That is what drives their brand, not collectors following rumors.
Case in point: do a web search of baseball card grading blogs/articles and you'll see people listing the 2 major TPGs as PSA and Beckett. It's quite sad actually.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by rocarroll

Agree with you 100% I think there are two questions, one of which seems to have been answered "yes" by the sell history. Does a PSA sell for higher on average than SGC - yes. The other being is PSA actually better than SGC and actually adds value because of something tangible, i.e. finds flaws that the other doesn't find thus its grades are more legit or is it just because that it is generally accepted to be the case. As you said, either way, the market is the market regardless of the reason. But as anything that doesn't have real value, that is subject to change depending on how the wind blows popular opinion. Spend a lot of money today on PSA because that's the "rumor" and you could lose a lot tomorrow because the "rumor" changes.

PSA is so strong that you would be talking a major major rumer...some rumors that could further kill the other TPG would do nothing to PSA......anything can happen of course but going to take more than just a normal 'rumor' to change the current perception of the ebay buyers out there..