SGC T206s....It needs to be brought up, it's scary, very scary if you are a collector

[Touch'EmAll]

Yes, a second quality grader is paramount to the hobby. Coins have NGC and PCGS, generally people prefer PCGS and their items sell for little more, but NGC right on their heels and very respectable.

SGC does need some bona fide step up in marketing.

Biggest thing is, like the stock market, you make your money when you buy. You can pony up big for PSA, but will it yield profits when you sell? Be careful. Paying less for SGC can yield profits too.

[asphaltman]

Honestly I don't think either grading company (PSA vs SGC) is any better than the other. And like many here have said, PSA probably has a larger following at this point due to their set registry. Probably does make more sense if you have a T206, 1933 Goudey, or a 1941 Play Ball.

My question for the non-main stream T206 collector however. Would you equally pay just as much money and be just as comfortable for the most part buying a T206 with a Drum back? Would anyone getting a Drum graded these days just plain be better off going to PSA? If so, this is a far cry from the way things were on this board even five years ago.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by asphaltman

Honestly I don't think either grading company (PSA vs SGC) is any better than the other. And like many here have said, PSA probably has a larger following at this point due to their set registry. Probably does make more sense if you have a T206, 1933 Goudey, or a 1941 Play Ball.

My question for the non-main stream T206 collector however. Would you equally pay just as much money and be just as comfortable for the most part buying a T206 with a Drum back? Would anyone getting a Drum graded these days just plain be better off going to PSA? If so, this is a far cry from the way things were on this board even five years ago.

I just sold my collection and sent in around 200 of my collection cards, all to SGC, to grade (except a few to Beckett which SGC didn't grade). When I had my T206s I only sent them to SGC too. I did have a few in PSA holders and just left them in them. A mid grade Drum will get the same price in a PSA or SGC holder, imo.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I still seeing PSA outpacing SGC graded cards for the most part....i do agree with leon that mid grade drums t206 type of cards are pretty similar....its been more than 6 months since the last post...anything change?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I still seeing PSA outpacing SGC graded cards for the most part....i do agree with leon that mid grade drums t206 type of cards are pretty similar....its been more than 6 months since the last post...anything change?

Still seems to be the same as you can buy a SGC card much cheaper.

[Pilot172000]

So let me get this strait, PSA won't swap over SGC cards? If so, why not just crack open the holder and send in raw. If the card is graded properly, wouldn't PSA grade it as such? I have several SGC card none over $300 that I was planning on sending to PSA. Should I be worried that they would not ease them at all or grade them out the same the SGC once did?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Pilot172000

So let me get this strait, PSA won't swap over SGC cards? If so, why not just crack open the holder and send in raw. If the card is graded properly, wouldn't PSA grade it as such? I have several SGC card none over $300 that I was planning on sending to PSA. Should I be worried that they would not ease them at all or grade them out the same the SGC once did?

David- PSA will look at submitted SGC cards in their holders. If you have high graded SGC cards, it takes big balls to crack them out and send in to PSA raw. There is somewhat of a mind game here. Why would PSA give a grade of 8 to an SGC graded card that is an 86? Do they want to give in to their major rival? I'm no expert here, but most people that I have spoken with have told me that SGC graded cards normally get lesser gradeds with PSA, especially the pre-war cards. At the end of the day, you really have to go with the strength of the card and not the holder, just my take...

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

You could send them to PSA still in the SGC holder and pay a "crossover" rate which is more expensive then a straight grade for a raw card. Many people including myself think that you get a biased opinion doing it this way as PSA seems to have a tendency to give you a grade below SGC's holder. Best way is to crack and submit raw (although over the last 18 months I've received about the same results doing it this way as well). I think overall PSA grades .5 to 1 grade stricter across the board.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

You could send them to PSA still in the SGC holder and pay a "crossover" rate which is more expensive then a straight grade for a raw card. Many people including myself think that you get a biased opinion doing it this way as PSA seems to have a tendency to give you a grade below SGC's holder. Best way is to crack and submit raw (although over the last 18 months I've received about the same results doing it this way as well). I think overall PSA grades .5 to 1 grade stricter across the board.

Some truth to this possibly. But again, it takes a lot of nerve to crack out an SGC 88 T206 HOFer....Then you have the risk of it coming back from PSA as being trimmed or altered, not worth the risk IMO

[Pilot172000]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

You could send them to PSA still in the SGC holder and pay a "crossover" rate which is more expensive then a straight grade for a raw card. Many people including myself think that you get a biased opinion doing it this way as PSA seems to have a tendency to give you a grade below SGC's holder. Best way is to crack and submit raw (although over the last 18 months I've received about the same results doing it this way as well). I think overall PSA grades .5 to 1 grade stricter across the board.

I see what you are saying and I can see how the stakes are significantly raised with the higher grade cards. I don't have anything over a 3 in SGC slabs so I really don't have that much skin in the game. I have noticed while I like PSA cards better, they seem to be less consistent in their grades. I have a PSA 3 that's sharp as razors and a PSA 3.5 that should at best be a grade below my PSA 3 cards. SGC cards seem to be more uniform in their grading for me anyways. I have learned through this forum to buy the card not the grade.

[pokerplyr80]

I'm actually more scared I would damage a high grade card cracking it out than I am it would get a lower grade or come back altered. Even sliding it back into a card saver. The risk of damage in shipping. No risk no reward I suppose, but the crack and resubmit game is one I haven't tried. That is unlikely to change in the future.

[roce4e52]

I started a fully graded 1958 Topps baseball set 8 or 9 years ago and finally finished it at the end of last year (yea for me!). At one time I had about 1/2 of the set PSA and 1/2 SGC graded. Switched to all PSA a few years ago because they were easier to find on Ebay.
Looked at the buy it now pop today for PSA and SGC cards on Ebay and it is around 4500 PSA and less than 500 SGC.
I like the look of cards in SGC holders better and they seem graded no better or worse than PSA but they were just harder to find. This is only my observation and only regarding 58 Topps, but they also sell for 10 to 30% less for cards of same grade. Eight years ago when I started the prices were almost par for equal grades ( the lower trend started about 4 years ago).
B1L d0n@1dsun

[RobertGT]

A couple of years ago I purchased pretty large lot of graded cards for the purpose of resale on eBay. The lot consisted of pretty equal representation of cards slabbed by PSA, BGS, SGC, and BVG.

I listed all the cards at the same time and they were priced to move, right at the VCP average.

SGC cards BY FAR took the longest to sell. PSA sold the fastest and Beckett was better than I expected. In fact, SGC was no match for even Beckett. Some of the SGC slabs (priced as low as $5!) are still sitting in my store while the others are long gone.

I'm not one to join in the "bash this or that grading company" crusade, but the centering on some cards that I've seen with SGC 84 7 is absolutely horrendous.

Not a good look for SGC.

[Pilot172000]

I mailed off all but two of my SGC cards to PSA yesterday. Nothing over a 40/3 but still my babies. I am hopeful I can get equal grades and move on.

[jfkheat]

Several months ago I sent 2 SGC graded 1954 Red Heart cards to PSA for crossover. The cards were a SGC 88(8) Billy Martin and a SGC 96(9) Hank Sauer. I requested minimum grades of 8 and 8.5. Both cards crossed to the same as SGC had them graded.
James

[Bosox Blair]

None of this is true in a general sense.

PSA rules in the grading of post-War commodity cards a.k.a. Registry cards. In pre-War terms the comparables are pretty much limited to high-grade T206.

For everything else (this is a pre-War forum, so this is what matters here), there is no material difference in pricing and everyone knows it.

I note that REA still sends lots of pre-War cards to SGC for grading before auction. Are they stupid? Are they looking to lose money? Are they screwing over the consignors? No, no, and no. The fact is that this PSA market superiority is asserted incessantly by some people who have no real relevant data to back it up.

I don't give a crap about anyone's high-grade 50s Topps - this is a pre-War forum. And high-grade T206 is not enough of a sample to make the kind of sweeping generalizations that seem to be popular lately.

The facts always seem to get in the way of a good argument...

Cheers,
Blair

[esd10]

Psa was founded on a lie and deception with the Psa 8 t206 wagner and i have always questioned if some of these auction houses and "elite" collectors could buy a grade they want because of the money they spend. I might be way off base with the ability to purchase a grade but it seems that way to me at some of these cards I have seen graded that don't deserve the high grade they have received.

[VintageJay]

Originally Posted by esd10

Psa was founded on a lie and deception with the Psa 8 t206 wagner and i have always questioned if some of these auction houses and "elite" collectors could buy a grade they want because of the money they spend. I might be way off base with the ability to purchase a grade but it seems that way to me at some of these cards I have seen graded that don't deserve the high grade they have received.

I couldn't agree more.

Also, to say PSA is better than SGC or vice versa is just ridiculous. Both grading companies, at least the last I checked, have humans on their payroll. And with humans, comes human error.

Both companies have hundreds, if not thousands, of undergraded/overgraded cards.

Most of us here have been collecting a lot longer than some of these "experts" that grade these cards.

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by VintageJay

I couldn't agree more.

Also, to say PSA is better than SGC or vice versa is just ridiculous. Both grading companies, at least the last I checked, have humans on their payroll. And with humans, comes human error.

Both companies have hundreds, if not thousands, of undergraded/overgraded cards.

Most of us here have been collecting a lot longer than some of these "experts" that grade these cards.

Actually, I think the OP stated that PSA cards sell consistantly higher than SGC cards - not that one is "better" than the other.

Last month, I did my own research on eBay concerning this. I used T206 Green Cobb, 62 Topps Maris, 69 Topps Mantle and 75 Topps Aaron. Without exception, the PSA sold 15% or more higher than the SGC of equal grade.

I know this as a fact. I simply looked for myself.

[Luke]

I haven't read all of this thread, so forgive me if this has already been said:

I have sent a lot of tobacco cards to both PSA and SGC lately, and I think the main difference in price is that the two companies are using different grading scales. A few years ago we used to joke around on here about some terrible cards in PSA 3-5 holders. I think they have over-corrected, because they are grading very tough right now. SGC seems to be grading a little bit easier than they used to. I have a bunch of VGEX-ish raw cards that I'm getting ready to submit, and I know they will get between 3.5 and 4 from PSA, and 55-60 from SGC.

It would be great for collectors if all grading companies used the same standards, but I don't think they have ever claimed that they do. Right now, a PSA 4 is going to cost more than an SGC 50, and it should because in almost all cases, it will be in better condition.

For the lower end of the grading spectrum, I haven't noticed much difference. But it is very clear in the mid-grades. I don't personally have any experience with submitting high-grade cards.