We just purchased a "FRESH" T206 Eddie Plank and are BUYING Vintage Cards! ***

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

You said you are getting out of the hobby (or at least taking a break, that has not occured yet, did you not? I am not sure why that is bullying to you or the other person...comparing what i said to rape isnt cool.....

i think you even have a thread about selling your cards because you are getting out of the hobby, or at least taking a break..which hasnt happened yet..(inferring that you are giving good deals as everything has to go')..i just pointed out that who cares about some hobby dispute when you are getting out .. i not on anyone's side... Justcollect could be very guilty of everything negative people are saying, who knows......and yes internet bullying is never cool... being not truthful isnt cool either as a general matter

In addition, if bullying isnt cool it also isnt cool on b/s/t to comment negatively on cards for sale...such as commenting negatively on the corners of a card on b/s/t/..im sure you wouldnt like it if i commented on alleged faults, true or not on any particular card you have for sale...especially one thats $1000+ on b/s/t.. .. just say the word and ill be sure to comment....so to summarize..internet bullying is bad, not being truthful is bad and providing negative comments on b/s/t is bad.......and you compare what i said to rape..... great post...

Using the word " cool" 5 times within a single post is, well...cool !!

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Internet bullying is never cool. And for you to belittle it by making a statement such as you did shows what an idiot you are. Does that excuse a rapists of rape because the girl is leaving town?? You are a dolt.

Wow. Post #47.

I see a quote and a response. Only 1 would I consider internet bullying.

[JustCollectVP]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And how did that happen? Incompetence? Favoritism?

And if you knew bad cards were making their way into the hobby, did you do anything to try to stop it?

I have my opinion with respect to Merkle's performance. I voiced my concerns when I felt there was an issue, however I did not have much say during Merkle's tour of duty.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

I have my opinion with respect to Merkle's performance. I voiced my concerns when I felt there was an issue, however I did not have much say during Merkle's tour of duty.

So to my question, is it your opinion that he was just incompetent, or that he was knowingly grading bad cards? The result may be the same but the implications are different. Certainly Derek Grady was/is not incompetent based on everything I know.

Did you consider blowing the whistle on it instead of just going along?

[botn]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

Greg, I believe that the post that you are referring to many years ago was were someone called you out about an eBay auction - I believe a card that was graded and you slammed PSA over their grade and the listing was a tirade because PSA didn't agree with your assessment of the material.

I recall that I noted that "the seller" played the bump game and that the bitter text in the auctions was probably more sour grapes than fact. I didn't know whether you were on CU or not, nor did I think that it mattered. If my facts are inaccurate, then I apologize. If they are correct, then I will stand by them.

With respect to SGC, I was a Senior Grader (1998-2000) and I was there during the end of the Merkle run. I was not the "Head Grader" as that responsibility fell upon Merkle and to a lesser extent, Grady, but I had no final say at what went out the door in a holder. Suffice it to say that there were cards that were put on the market that I would not have allowed in a holder.

You wrote far more than I was a seller who played the bump game and you knew I could not post there because it was mentioned on the very short thread more than once. I also reached out to you via email once I was made aware of your irresponsible post about me also reiterating that I could not post and you not only did not reply but you went out of your way to again post on the thread that you were not going to reply to me and you stood by everything you wrote.

Those are some big eggs, dude. For a guy who now claims to have looked the other way while his boss shoved bad cards into holders I would say you might want to spend a bit more time checking yourself rather than attacking someone who you do not know in the slightest. My guess is that anyone who stays at that job for that long did more than look the other way. So if you were not the one who gave the green light to bad cards you at least lacked enough ethics to stay employed there and did nothing to stop it and nothing to inform the public.

You might have others fooled about what a great hobby guy you are but you do not fool me in the least.

[JustCollectVP]

Originally Posted by botn

You wrote far more than I was a seller who played the bump game and you knew I could not post there because it was mentioned on the very short thread more than once. I also reached out to you via email once I was made aware of your irresponsible post about me also reiterating that I could not post and you not only did not reply but you went out of your way to again post on the thread that you were not going to reply to me and you stood by everything you wrote.

Those are some big eggs, dude. For a guy who now claims to have looked the other way while his boss shoved bad cards into holders I would say you might want to spend a bit more time checking yourself rather than attacking someone who you do not know in the slightest. My guess is that anyone who stays at that job for that long did more than look the other way. So if you were not the one who gave the green light to bad cards you at least lacked enough ethics to stay employed there and did nothing to stop it and nothing to inform the public.

You might have others fooled about what a great hobby guy you are but you do not fool me in the least.

Greg, I'm going to make this quite clear. You are WRONG! Your assumptions and your allegations are WRONG! Point a finger all you want, but count how many point back at you.

[bobbyw8469]

You might have others fooled about what a great hobby guy you are but you do not fool me in the least.

Nor I. I am sure others feel the same way, but just don't wish to get involved or speak out, lest they get attacked as well.

[Joshwesley]

This escalated quickly

Insert Ron Burgundy gif

Lol

[JustCollectVP]

Actually, I found the thread and I also mentioned that you altered cards (which was second hand information - and if incorrect, my apologies as I certainly should've vetted such before posting it).

It was actually blasting SGC, not PSA.

Here is the thread: https://forums.collectors.com/messag...hreadid=774262

Again, I'm not trying to hide and I'll take ownership of my words.

[botn]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

Actually, I found the thread and I also mentioned that you altered cards (which was second hand information - and if incorrect, my apologies as I certainly should've vetted such before posting it).

It was actually blasting SGC, not PSA.

Here is the thread: https://forums.collectors.com/messag...hreadid=774262

Again, I'm not trying to hide and I'll take ownership of my words.

Yes you should have vetted your source before making the post. Your post indicates you have first hand info. No clue who your source was but it was entirely irresponsible to post that I personally alter cards lacking evidence which neither you nor your source could possibly have.

Getting bumps and playing that game which virtually everyone does, does not mean someone is altering cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Before this deteriorates any further can we stick for a second to the big story line here at least from my perspective? An SGC grader comes on the board and tells us that for a period of time, in his opinion, SGC was putting bad cards into the marketplace. That to me is a big deal, and I would like to know more about it and in particular the OP's perspective on how this happened and why.

[botn]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

I didn't know whether you were on CU or not, nor did I think that it mattered.

Now that you have posted the CU thread are you lying now when you say you did not know whether or not I was on CU? Course you knew...If you read the thread enough to post about me then you should have read that I was tossed off the board a few posts before your first post. Obviously you wanted to play bully and beat up on someone who could not defend themselves which is why you were too much of a coward to reply to my email.

But enough about me. I am not the one coming on the board trying to convince people to trust them. Seems you have a past, maybe a present, which you need to explain. You come off as not very genuine now and clearly have at least a past which demonstrated a real lack of ethics and you seem to be avoiding discussing that. Typing WRONG! in response to my statements and ignoring Peter's questions may be insufficient.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hey Ed
Hope all is well over there.....They passed it by me first and this is a paid advertisement, otherwise you would be 100% correct.

Doesn't bother me this is here, but should disclose this is a "paid" advertisement. Feels snake-oily without disclosure.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by HobokenJon

Wow. Not just dollars, but REAL dollars. My offer to buy your REAL dollars for 70 cents stands.

+1 It was funny the first time; and it's funny again.

[JustCollectVP]

Originally Posted by botn

Now that you have posted the CU thread are you lying now when you say you did not know whether or not I was on CU? Course you knew...If you read the thread enough to post about me then you should have read that I was tossed off the board a few posts before your first post. Obviously you wanted to play bully and beat up on someone who could not defend themselves which is why you were too much of a coward to reply to my email.

But enough about me. I am not the one coming on the board trying to convince people to trust them. Seems you have a past, maybe a present, which you need to explain. You come off as not very genuine now and clearly have at least a past which demonstrated a real lack of ethics and you seem to be avoiding discussing that. Typing WRONG! in response to my statements and ignoring Peter's questions may be insufficient.

Since I assumed that you were "litigator" on the CU, I assumed that you had an avenue to reply. Again, perhaps that was incorrect. I really don't care anymore and since it was more than six years ago, I really would've though you'd have let it go. Obviously not. Regardless, my apologies if I was out of line or off base.

I have no desire to rehash or speak about SGC or my time there. Despite you, Peter, or anyone else wanting an explanation, I am neither obligated nor inclined to provide you with any details of what happened during a regime long gone (both the head grader and the ownership).

Bad cards and erroneous cards have been holdered by ALL of the major TPG's before and after my time as a grader. Some despite warnings from others on staff. Any declaration, speculation or insight provided on my part will only add fuel for the flames that some wish to ignite and I feel no need or responsibility to add fodder to that quest.

Cast whatever stones you wish. Question me all you want, but just because a few have issues with me calling them out over the past decade and want to continue to grind that axe, it is a far cry to question my ethics or integrity. And even more so to try to therefore translate this bitterness to the company that I work for that has been nothing but standup and transparent.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Leon

This thread should have been labeled as a paid ad and that was my mistake. Otherwise, They will continue just the way they have been. My apologies if they offend anyone but I don't think they are that big of a deal. It's not like there are a lot of them. But of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Thanks for the comments and thanks to JustCollect for not only being good hobby friends of 15yrs + but also part of the community as an advertiser and participant. I hope it continues for multiples of the next 15 yrs.

Awesome; I didn't see this before my last post

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

Since I assumed that you were "litigator" on the CU, I assumed that you had an avenue to reply. Again, perhaps that was incorrect. I really don't care anymore and since it was more than six years ago, I really would've though you'd have let it go. Obviously not. Regardless, my apologies if I was out of line or off base.

I have no desire to rehash or speak about SGC or my time there. Despite you, Peter, or anyone else wanting an explanation, I am neither obligated nor inclined to provide you with any details of what happened during a regime long gone (both the head grader and the ownership).

Bad cards and erroneous cards have been holdered by ALL of the major TPG's before and after my time as a grader. Some despite warnings from others on staff. Any declaration, speculation or insight provided on my part will only add fuel for the flames that some wish to ignite and I feel no need or responsibility to add fodder to that quest.

Cast whatever stones you wish. Question me all you want, but just because a few have issues with me calling them out over the past decade and want to continue to grind that axe, it is a far cry to question my ethics or integrity. And even more so to try to therefore translate this bitterness to the company that I work for that has been nothing but standup and transparent.

Scott, YOU volunteered the information about SGC, and offered a Nuremberg type defense in response to Greg, and I merely asked follow up factual questions hoping to elicit more information. I have not said a word against you to this point. Obviously if you don't want to answer I can't make you, and we can form our own judgments. To me, coming as it did from an SGC grader, it was a big deal, the first such direct admission of its kind I am aware of, and more concrete than the shop talk and speculation with which we are all too familiar.

[botn]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

Since I assumed that you were "litigator" on the CU, I assumed that you had an avenue to reply. Again, perhaps that was incorrect. I really don't care anymore and since it was more than six years ago, I really would've though you'd have let it go. Obviously not. Regardless, my apologies if I was out of line or off base.

I have no desire to rehash or speak about SGC or my time there. Despite you, Peter, or anyone else wanting an explanation, I am neither obligated nor inclined to provide you with any details of what happened during a regime long gone (both the head grader and the ownership).

Bad cards and erroneous cards have been holdered by ALL of the major TPG's before and after my time as a grader. Some despite warnings from others on staff. Any declaration, speculation or insight provided on my part will only add fuel for the flames that some wish to ignite and I feel no need or responsibility to add fodder to that quest.

Cast whatever stones you wish. Question me all you want, but just because a few have issues with me calling them out over the past decade and want to continue to grind that axe, it is a far cry to question my ethics or integrity. And even more so to try to therefore translate this bitterness to the company that I work for that has been nothing but standup and transparent.

I emailed you after your first post and told you I was not "litigator". Why would I email you directly to address your very disparaging post about me if I were able to defend myself there? You are full of it. And 6 years ago or not, you were incredibly reckless.

I have not said anything about the company who employs you now but your refusal to speak about the fraud which took place while you were a senior grader at SGC for several years other than to absolve yourself of any wrong doing or responsibility speaks volumes to the person you are today.

[JustCollectVP]

Originally Posted by botn

I emailed you after your first post and told you I was not "litigator". Why would I email you directly to address your very disparaging post about me if I were able to defend myself there? You are full of it. And 6 years ago or not, you were incredibly reckless.

I have not said anything about the company who employs you now but your refusal to speak about the fraud which took place while you were a senior grader at SGC for several years other than to absolve yourself of any wrong doing or responsibility speaks volumes to the person you are today.

Fraud is a word that you have used, not I.

I am through with this area of discussion.

[botn]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

Fraud is a word that you have used, not I.

I am through with this area of discussion.

SGC will not honor their guaranty for cards graded during a time in which you were a senior grader-- a time where by your own admission, SGC holdered bad cards. If it is not fraud then what is it? You continued to work there knowing bad cards were being holdered. You did nothing with this information and continue to dismiss yourself from what took place. Of course that seems to be ok with you because bad cards from all grading services get holdered. You have a convenient explanation for everything.

[Peter_Spaeth]

When people volunteer a little information, then refuse to answer questions and act indignant, that often doesn't work out too well. Just an observation.
adver
Anyhow, back to the advertisement, as apparently no more information is forthcoming.

[begsu1013]

scott,

as primarily a psa guy and considering a recent sgc purchase was made, can i get just one piece of vital information that shouldn't cause a stir or implicate anyone...

this merkle tenure and guarantee reneging is news to me.

is there a certain set of flip numbers or perhaps a certain looking flip style that we should be on the look out for to protect ourselves?

or simply what are the determining signs of one of these suspicious or questionable cards?

if you can shed any insight on this for me i would certainly appreciate it....


congrats on the plank find and despite the detours would call this thread a success.

(and no one is perfect here, guys. myself included)

[begsu1013]

and this reminds me of the tommy boy scene:

if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, i will. ive got plenty of time.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

When people volunteer a little information, then refuse to answer questions and act indignant, that often doesn't work out too well. Just an observation.
adver
Anyhow, back to the advertisement, as apparently no more information is forthcoming.

Where are all those pro sgc posters now that talk about and show PSA graded cards that were overgraded etc....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

scott,

as primarily a psa guy and considering a recent sgc purchase was made, can i get just one piece of vital information that shouldn't cause a stir or implicate anyone...

this merkle tenure and guarantee reneging is news to me.

is there a certain set of flip numbers or perhaps a certain looking flip style that we should be on the look out for to protect ourselves?

or simply what are the determining signs of one of these suspicious or questionable cards?

if you can shed any insight on this for me i would certainly appreciate it....


congrats on the plank find and despite the detours would call this thread a success.

(and no one is perfect here, guys. myself included)

Deleted, apparently posted information was wrong.

[JustCollectVP]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

(1) SG on the front(1998)
(2) SGC on the front, but no 1-10 grade(99-04)
(3) SGC on the front with 1-10 grade + gold label on the back(05-08)
(4) SGC on the front with 1-10 grade + SGC pressed into the back(09-current)

This was posted pre the most recent flip obviously. Merkel pretty sure was through 04.

Actually, Merkle was gone in 1999.

The SG logo was used until late '98/early '99. The change to the SGC logo was near the very end of Joe's tenure and the dual grade at the end of '99 was after he was gone.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

Actually, Merkle was gone in 1999.

The SG logo was used until late '98/early '99. The change to the SGC logo was near the very end of Joe's tenure and the dual grade at the end of '99 was after he was gone.

OK.

[begsu1013]

so basically any of'em w/o a numerical grade?

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

so basically any of'em w/o a numerical grade?

To be clear any without a 1-10 grade.

I would consider 50 and 84 to be numerical grades.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

To be clear any without a 1-10 grade.

I would consider 50 and 84 to be numerical grades.

I hope you were that precise when you did surgery.

[begsu1013]

that is how i perceived it as well and he might as well been there thru 04 in my mind.


thanks for the glimpse of sunshine and moments of fresh air. heading back down to the dungeon now...

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Where are all those pro sgc posters now that talk about and show PSA graded cards that were overgraded etc....

PSA 8 Honus Wagner. Nuff Ced.

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

PSA 8 Honus Wagner. Nuff Ced.

+1. Let's not mention WWAG either.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

PSA 8 Honus Wagner. Nuff Ced.

http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_5.html

[glynparson]

To just scream Wagner about Psa people can scream Doyle about sgc because just like sgc has a totally different regime so does Psa from the days of the Wagner. It was also a calculated business decision in my opinion and it would be hard to argue that it was not a successful decision. In fact an owner of a chief Psa competitor once told me before he owned the company he now does that he would have slabbed it at the time because of all the press it got them. I can remeber a tony galovich article where he talked about how it only got an 8 but was sold to Gretzky McNall as mint and how they should have asked for some money back. Yell about current issues but talking about something from 24 years ago at a company with entirely different graders a different president and changed from a privately owned company to a publicly owned doesn't really hold any water anymore.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

To just scream Wagner about Psa people can scream Doyle about sgc because just like sgc has a totally different regime so does Psa from the days of the Wagner. It was also a calculated business decision in my opinion and it would be hard to argue that it was not a successful decision. In fact an owner of a chief Psa competitor once told me before he owned the company he now does that he would have slabbed it at the time because of all the press it got them. I can remeber a tony galovich article where he talked about how it only got an 8 but was sold to Gretzky McNally as mint and how they should have asked for some money back. Yell about current issues but talking about something from 24 years ago at a company with entirely different graders a different president and changed from a privately owned company to a publicly owned doesn't really hold any water anymore.

I am sure there are many more recent examples at both companies one could talk about as well. To an extent it goes with the territory I suppose, as you mostly are paying for a quick opinion not a crime lab.

[slipk1068]

The questions is, which one is a mistake, and which one is turning a blind eye to a card you know is bad.

[glynparson]

all I have to say about the plank is I personally would advise one use a sniping service if planning on bidding from my personal experiences.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I can remeber a tony galovich article where he talked about how it only got an 8 but was sold to Gretzky McNally as mint and how they should have asked for some money back.

I'm curious, if Gretzky and McNall asked for some money from PSA, wouldn't they also have to surrender the card to PSA?

[Stampsfan]

I don't think this thread is gonna do much to attract advertisers who want to purchase collections.

[glynparson]

Tony was referring to the auction house that called the card mint not Psa who graded it nm mt.

[Gradedcardman]

Would love to see a picture of the Plank when possible.