Ok, 'fess up: who won this Cobb card?

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Posted By: warshawlaw

In the Clean Sweep auction

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Posted By: leon

Do ya always have to out me ? I hope it isn't some cut up 4 in 1 Exhibit?

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Posted By: Brad Green

Leon:

Certainly Adam is more of an exhibit expert than I am, but this does not look like a cut-up 4/1 exhibit to me. The earliest 4/1 exhibits that I am aware were issued around 1929. Cobb played for the Tigers through the 1926 season. He played for the Athletics in 1927 and 1928, retiring sometime during or after the 1928 season. (I am not a Ty Cobb expert, either...) So, having said all this, this card has Cobb with the Tigers (which would date the card to 1926 or earlier), which would indicate to me that this card could not possibly be from an exhibit 4/1.

You can find pictures of two 4/1 exhibits issued around 1929 on my website at the links below. The print on these cards are not consistent with the print on the Cobb card above.

Brad

http://www.bandkgreen.net/lefty_grove/z_1929_exhibit41.htm

http://www.bandkgreen.net/lefty_grove/z_1929_anonexhibit.htm

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Posted By: warshawlaw

The same image with the label in question is found on a very rare and obscure multi-sport exhibit 4 on 1 card featuring Cobb, Joe Judge and boxers Dave Shade and Eugene Criqui. I recognized the image instantly when I saw the auction. Many of the non-sports 4 on 1 exhibits of the era were made into 10-card vertical strip cards. I have a couple of Tom Mix cards from the issue showing him boxing and playing baseball. The Cobb appears consistent with that strip issue. This, of course, opens a pandora's box as to the potential existence of other ballplayers and athletes in the strip format.

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Posted By: Brad Green

Adam:

What year was this Cobb card issued? Are these the earliest 4/1 exhibits that you are aware of?

Brad

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Posted By: zach

A George Kelly is also know, scan taken from Erik aka Goudey Hunters site.

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Posted By: Bob Lemke

Our data base has (and the 2007 Standard Catalog will have) four different of these 4-on-1 Exhibits that draw their images from the 1926-1929 "Postcard-back" Exhibits.

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Posted By: fkw

It is a 4in1 cut up. The set includes boxers and baseball players, 4 per card. Ive seen them in blue, green, or orange tint. I have seen a green Ruth as well. I was offered the Ruth and Cobb about 7 years ago but passed on them at the time. I will post a picture of a complete card when I find it. It was in a Lew Lipset auction about 5 years ago. Here are 2 more scans of cut cards.




OK here is the auction pic, April 24/25 2002 Lipset

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I thought the ones I found were cut ups too but I later learned that they were strips. Any other info on the set's make-up or manufacture?

Bob: which ones are they?

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Posted By: Brad Green

If the above Anonymous 4/1 Exhibit were issued in 1928 I would think it would have Philadelphia Athletics written on it under Ty Cobb's name. Wouldn't it be more likely issued in 1926 since Detroit is written on it?

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Posted By: fkw

Ive always called them ca.1920's. But 1926 is better. Ruth was on Yankees all through the 20's, Cobb on Detroit all through the 20's up to 1926 and Judge on Washington all through the 20's. Geo. Kelly is the best way to date them Ive seen, as he played for NY NL from 1919-1926. The photos are taken from the 1926-29 Exhibit set. So ca.1926 is the best year.

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Posted By: leon

I have a Judge too and I call it "1920's". It is the blue variety. Didn't even know I had him until I just checked. Since so many are found cut up from the original Exhibits I wonder if it was common practice to get them and then cut out the individual players to trade and flip? Most I have seen (now I remember some others too) have had worn corners.....anyway still a neat piece and I will be happy to add him to my collection as another w-unc.... or 1/4 of an Exhibit....regards

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Posted By: Michael Huggins

"Since so many are found cut up from the original Exhibits I wonder if it was common practice to get them and then cut out the individual players to trade and flip?"

Common practice as to get them graded by SGC as a regular issue and not as AUTH/Trimmed?

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Posted By: leon

Unless they grade it as a 1/4 card I doubt it....it does open a little bit of a debate however, dunno 'bout ya'll, but I am rather tired of the "what is a card" arguments....regards

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Is lay out a 4-0n-1 and the card together to see if they line up or are different like the W517 minis

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Posted By: Eric

The Joe Judge card of mine (see above in Zach's post) was purchased from Frank many years ago. At the time, I don't know that anyone knew what it was, and Frank sold it as just that "an unknown blue tint card from the 1920's". Last year, I was informed that the card was actually an original part of a four athlete post-card sized card..and the Judge card was cut down from it. The image Frank shows above is the only one I've ever seen intact, with all four athletes.
When it comes to strip cards, I know the issue rages on about which are cards, and which are "cut-downs". My opinion of this card varies slightly from that of, say, a W515-1, which was part of an elongated panel meant to be cut into individual cards. Because this 4/1 postcard wasn't "meant" to be cut down into individual cards, there's a legitimate argument that they shouldn't be viewed as individual "cards". I don't dabble in the subject much, but in this scenario, I recognize my Joe Judge as a piece that has been cut down, but certainly holds enough validity to be viewed as an individual card. If I were ever to sell this card, however, I would be forthright in stating that the card was once a part of a larger piece.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Ditto for all the pieces; any indications of back printing or are they all blank-backed?

Inquiring minds want to know.

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Posted By: Eric

Adam,

No, there isn't anything on the back of my card, it's completely blank. I'd be interested to know whether or not this was a post card or not, as well

E.

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Posted By: dan mckee

This card is cut from a 4 in 1 but not an exhibit. I had 2 different colors of it (including this one) on my table at Fort Washington last September. Steve bought my table out and got both of them. Dan.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Reeves?