new t207 variation

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Posted By: jay behrens

I brought some of my cards with me to the National to get opinions on these cards. Among them my e90-3 Hofman print error and t207 Milan with a brown back.

Concensus on the Hofman is that it's most likely a broken dye that makes his name look like Hofnlan



The back of the Milan card is printed with brown ink. I had posted scans here before trying to show the difference but the scans didn't show this very well. I showed the card to Scott Brockleman. He said he had seen one earlier in the day but thought it had been altered in some way trying to remove some ink from the back. He said that when saw my card and the fact that I have had mine for about 3 years, his theory about the other card being altered went out the window.

I brought both of these cards to Dave Foreman at SGC to see if they would slab them as variations. He didn't even think twice about slabbing the t207 Milan, but wants to talk with his graders before making a decision about the Hofman.

Looks like you t207 have a new back variation to look for.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: Patrick McHugh

Jay i had the other t207 that i showed to Scott. After really looking at mine i say its brown to. SGC now has another card to grade. Hope they agree. I can say the color is solid brown, not a faded black. The card is in a PSA holder.

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Posted By: andy becker

slightly ot....but i also spoke with dave foreman regarding the orange variation of the t206 red portrait cobb. he was hesitant to slab the card as a variation.
since there are more than just a few orange cobb's, i think it's a variation worth recognizing...but that's my opinion.
btw, the cobb in question is orange (very orange, like a pumpkin).
other opinions???

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Posted By: jay behrens

concensus on the orange t206s is that it's just a red that slowly changed over the course of the print run just like the violet color of the Willis can be found in many different shades.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: Zach

I agree...I don't think the cobb orange port. is a true variation...just an example of fading colors.

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Posted By: JimB

Who formed the concensus on the orange Cobb T206. I think that they result from one color not being applied at all, not merely a fading or lesser degree. Look at some of the copies in the "Show us your Cobb" discussion. One even shows a distinct line near the top where the red ceases to have made it to the rest of the card.
JimB

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Posted By: jay behrens

the orange Cobb has been discussed several times on this forum. You can use the search function to review all the previous posts.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: JimB

Robert A's Cobb-orange is the one I was partiuclarly thinking of where you can see the distinct line where the red ink ceased to make it to the card. See also REllingsen's copy and my copy near the bottom of the discussion.
JimB

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Posted By: andy becker

first let me say, i'm sorry jay. i didn't mean to hijack the thread.
but i will agree with jimb. the orange cobb is not a faded red ink. some are, but a true orange cobb is missing a layer of coloring.
how is that any different than the no "b" sweeney, or the no "s" snodgrass?
i don't think it is.....and that's why i don't understand why sgc (or psa, for that matter) won't slab, AND TITLE, the variation.
it IS recognized by the vintage collecting comunity, but it is not in scd...and therefore, imo, the graders won't be the first to stand up and slab it.
at the very least, i am motivated to post a scan....and will do so later tonight.

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Posted By: robert a

Jay,
Whether the grading co's recognize it as a variation or not, your e90-3 hofman is unique and very interesting. I still don't understand how it could occur on only one? Perhaps, it was corrected very quickly or they used some kind of turnstyle text printer and the letters were miscalculated.

Concerning the t206 red cobb. You do see different shades of orange/red with different examples. The red ink might have been applied once, but not again or not a third time. The difference between the cobb and sweeney (for example) is that sweeney and some of the other boston players received no red ink whatsoever during the printing process.

I personally believe that the sweeney and others get variation credit from the graders (and collectors who go by what the graders say) cuz' the lack of ink causes a clear distinction for collectors (no letter on cap, jersey, etc.) kinda like the t207 mentioned earlier in the thread.

Maybe, both the sweeney and cobb should be called variations because in reality both are caused from a similar printing error, right?

Either way, I've seen many different issues that have slight variation in color from e98 to t210 and definitely e90-3. Should orange t210s be called variations? I personally think that's silly.

Although, for you guys trying to get SGC to grade your orange cobb portraits...just ask SGC what the difference is between an orange cobb and the e90-3 payne and tinker color "variations" that they have graded in the past.

I'd sure like to know.
Robert A

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Posted By: andy becker

i am shocked...it worked!

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Posted By: Brent Butcher

Very nice Cobb Andy! There are color variations that are recognized but usually they are missing the color all together. Some newer examples would be the blackless 1982 Topps baseball or the nnof Frank Thomas BUT in most cases when someone claims they have an orange Cobb its usually clear that it is missing the last layer of red as evident by the red in the upper right corner of Andy's card. It wouldn't bother me if they labeled this variation differently. Heck Andy, just have them label it "The Mr. Orange Collection."

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Posted By: jay behrens

Patrick, what player is your card and what grade?

My assumption would be that this brown back will only be found on Recruits.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: Patrick McHugh

Jay my card is Walter Johnson graded PSA6 (mk). It has the number 97 written in ink above his name on the back. The card is a Recruit back factory no. 240, 1st dist. PA. I will send it to SGC and see if they agree. I'll let you know.

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Posted By: tbob

Jay- I remember when I put together a previous T207 set back in the late 80's, I found 2 Recruit backs (commons) which had brown backs. I am not sure who they were and thought at the time it was merely an inking problem. They were both brown, not black at all. Whomever bought my T207 set in the Mastro auction several years ago now owns them.
Bob