baseball ambrotype

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Posted By: ramram (Rob M.)

Interesting ambrotype just finished off today for a modest price. I got a little cold feet as the seller concerned me a little but it is certainly a great item (amongst other things I think he did some shill bidding plus his feedback was less than desireable). I thought the image looked more like a tintype but the seller swore that it's an ambrotype so I believe it actually must be. The uniforms look 1860's and the mat has a patent date of July 1864 (this is actually kind of late period for an ambro as most had died out by around 1862) so the image is somewhere probably 1865 to 1866. There are some CDV's and tintypes that actually predate this but there are very few baseball ambro's. By the way, the lucky winner was n172junky. Is he one of our own?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=8716351172&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT>

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Posted By: joe

Wow, those 40 negatives would have scared me off. I hope bidder receives the item, looks nice.

Joe

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Posted By: barrysloate

I didn't see it but are we even certain it's an ambro? It looks like it could be but hard to tell on a scan. It's a beautiful image but does seem kind of late. Could it be a tintype?

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Posted By: jason

What rotten luck! I was moving house this weekend and I missed it!

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Posted By: leon

That's a great picture. Yes, the winner is a board member.....regards

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jason- I was thinking that if you didn't bid on it, it must not be an ambro. It still looks awfully late to me, but I suppose it's possible.

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Posted By: jason

Your right Barry it does look quite late but then again I have seen a few ambros made into the early 70's.

The image does look like a tintype from the poor shot quality but who know's!

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Posted By: davidcycleback

If it turns out to be an ambrotype, the winner paid a fair if not low price.

To identify the photo, throw it on the sidewalk. If it shatters, it was an ambrotype.

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Posted By: Harry Wallace (HW)

Though it is certainly difficult to tell by a photo, it looks like a tin type to me.

Has anyone held it in their hand and taken it out of its case? Is it glass or metal?

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Posted By: Trevor Hocking

Hello,

I am the winner of this item. It has not been shipped to me yet but I do have other pics it is an Ambrotype. Board members and friends have already tried to interfere with this auction after it closed and one other ebay item as well (they knew it was me who won them) and I am pissed. This hobby has turned to crap. I thought I had friends but I guess when it comes to the sins of this hobby it has become a great tool for the Devil to wheeled them. Good luck to all and I will see you in the trenches. I guess I will have to get five ebay handles just like everyone else. Man I am really really pissed. Oh and by the way I am getting both items and the sellers are being very honest with me about who e-mailed them. So that being said. Good By!

Trevor Hocking (n172junky)
trevor@synergystudios.tv

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hey Trevor,
Why in the world do you think you are being attacked on the board? We're having a lively discussion about the piece and are trying to determine if it is in fact an ambrotype. The consensus is it is difficult to tell from the scan which is a little fuzzy on the ebay site. How do you interpret that as a personal attack? I think it is a beautiful image but it just looks a little late for an ambro, that's all. And I've spent my professional life studying early baseball photography; same for Jason Wright, Rob Morgan, and David Rudd, who's written a book on the subject. I think you are way too sensitive here. If it's an ambro I think you scored. What else can I say?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Trevor, I think people were being discussing the item (with lack of information and not having seen the item in person) and not badmouthing you. As I mentioned, a baseball ambrotype like that is worth good money. The baseball Daguerreotypes are famous as ultra-rarities, but Barry once told me that there are fewer baseball ambrotypes.

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Posted By: Bryan Long

It sound as if board members have e-mailed the seller wanting them to sell the item at a higher price to them instead of the original price that was realized through ebay for Trevor. I may be wrong though.

My website: http://photobucket.com/albums/b45/trib01/

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Posted By: leon

The auction ran it's full course. If folks are going and making higher offers now that they have seen it, and didn't see it to until it ended or from this board, then that is absolutely wrong....I hope you do find out and let us know....regards

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I agree, that would be pretty cheesy practice.

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Posted By: barrysloate

There are only three confirmed dags with any relation to baseball and all three picture Alexander Cartwright. There are no known dags that definitively picture a baseball player, certainly none with bat and ball. There are at least 6-8 ambros, and perhaps more. However, Trevor's anger may be directed towards something else, and I may have misread his post. It sounds like others were making offers to the seller after the auction closed. If that is the case, then I don't blame him for being upset.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Barry, what about that Dag of kitty holding a ball of yarn? That looked awfully close to a baseball.

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Posted By: Trevor Hocking

Barry and David I do respect you and the others for the work you have done and continue to do.

I stated my point that it is an Ambro. I didn't in anyway degrade you or any other photographic specialist or the discussion about this being an Ambro.

Here's my problem, I had done the proper research before I made my bids, and now because of this post people have read it and saw it and said, Gee I think will email the seller saying it sold to low and is worth more I will pay you X for it if you sell to me. So members have told him it's a lot rare and should be in a proper AUCTION One board member had even tried to help the seller with a lie that he could say just so the other person could have it. That was on the other auction.

So I'm not out of line this thread started with someone asking who won it. So hay I did and thanks for interfering.

I had won the Amrbo fair an square and board members had e-mailed the seller trying to buy this item for more than what I legally won it for, also with one other recent ebay auction.

So Barry I'm not over reacting and you guys can keep discussing if its a Ambro. I was just telling my story that dealt with the question that was first posted. Sorry for speaking my mind and not keep it on pace.

I know this may seem harsh but I am upset and disappointed in a few people.

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Posted By: barrysloate

That's close enough.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Trevor- If that is the case you should be upset because the auction is over and you won it fair and square. And it is a really neat baseball image, and valuable as such. Good luck with it.

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Posted By: Trevor Hocking

Leon,

I have found out the names of the members who emailed the sellers on both auctions, AFTER the auctions closed legally and not early. So that being said I am keeping those names to myself as we don't need to bring more crap to this board. Seems like all we ever talk about here is whats wrong with the hobby and what other crappy thing has happened.

Just forget it I will handle this my own way as I should of in the first place and not even posted about it. Sorry to make everyone read about my anger.

Back to the chat room I go!

Trevor

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Technically, this after auction practice could result in the seller and after auction buyer being booted from eBay. eBay expects things to be done within the auction setting, as that's where they collect their fees. In this case, eBay would most definitely be on the the winner's side.

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Posted By: barrysloate

David- Why would the seller be in jeopardy if he is honoring his commitment to Trevor? I would think that if the seller reported the names of the people making the after auction offers, those are the ones who could get booted.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I was not accusing the seller of anything, and half-assumed he was honest as I figured he could have been the only one to provide Trevor with the emails. I merely meant to say that off-eBay sales as allegedly attempted can get a seller and buyer into trouble. I used the phrase "after auction buyer," meaning IF there is a after auction buyer. Meaning, if there is no after auction sale, there is no 'after auction buyer' and the scenario and penalties does not apply. I was making a general statement about the practice of off-eBay sales, not about an individual seller. If this seller refused to sell afterwards for extra $$ and Trevor gets his photo, obviously the seller is an honest person.

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Posted By: barrysloate

It seems that the only way these "after hours" buyers knew about the image was Rob Morgan's post. Otherwise, they would have bid before the auction ended. Clearly we all missed it.

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Posted By: ramramram

Wow! I just got caught up on these posts. Looks like it has taken a life of its own. I figured the winner must be somebody from this board. Congrats Trevor! I was the underbidder and I had waited to post about this auction after it was over because I wanted to keep the auction clean and talk about this great find after the fact. Looks like that hasn't happened though (and...no...I'm not one of the people that made an offer after the fact, I shot my bid during the auction, and I hope Trevor knows that). If Trevor's upset about this topic being posted and discussed, then I'm at a loss. For one, I simply was saying what had held me back on pursuing it harder (one of which was the sellers feedback and there was another issue as well) and that I had concerns as to whether it was actually an ambro. I ended up being convinced enough that it was an ambro though by the seller. Most people confuse dag's and tintypes but most people don't know what an ambro even is. The seller said it was definitely an ambro, which means to me he must know what he is talking about. Trevor will know soon enough so it makes everything else moot. I would certainly be livid as well though if I found out others were interfering after the fact. I don't think it's fair though to tie your anger to this posting. This is an exciting new find and worthy of discussion. You should be proud of your new ambro.

Rob M.

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Posted By: Trevor Hocking

Ok one more thing and maybe this will help, but I doubt it.

If you are going to talk about a ebay item that has closed on a public board please wait a couple of weeks after it closes.

Believe it or not there are some really pieces of work on this one. They are little kids if I can't have it for a good price then no one can. So they give lines to the seller your item is possibly unique and very valuable. So what will that lead to, really how much, says the seller. After the auction has closed!!! Oh well. That is all for now. There will be more to come. I am very mad and hurt. I am not taking this lightly.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Trevor is making a good point. By publicizing the item on network54 too many people now know about it. I've seen ads for obscure country auctions that have vintage baseball items, and the next thing I know someone has started a thread and the cat is out of the bag. I guess you can't stop the power of the internet, but some things need to remain private. I can see where Trevor would be nervous that something could go wrong with his transaction, and I would feel the same way. Privacy doesn't exist anymore and this is a situation where discretion is necessary.

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

Personally Trevor I think you should publicize the names of the people who did this. It could discourage them from doing stuff like this in the future.

Of course after witnessing the banter here in the last year between collectors who have wronged each other in some way or another I doubt it would have any effect whatsoever.

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Posted By: jason

Trevor, congrats on the Ambro - it is a fantastic! As my e-mail to you stated (not to the original seller), if you are ever interested in parting with it, please let me know!

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Posted By: jay behrens

Trevor outting the poeple that pulled this stunt won't stop them from doing it again. As Trevor said, these are spoiled rich kids that feel that if they can't have something at a good price, then no one else will. Personally, I wouldn't mind knowing who they are so that when I selling my cards, I know to jack up the price 100% if they are interested in buying anything from me. Fair is fair and those people should never expect to get a break on prices again.

Jay

I'm incompetent at being incontenent.

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Posted By: craig

trevor

very nice pick up.

OT question,
i have found a very nice des moines item that i would like to discuss with you. very similar to the la roche cabinet you have. can you please email me you contact info so that i might get a chance to make full use of your expertise again.


sincerely
craig in DM

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Posted By: Trevor Hocking

Hi Craig,

Thanks and I will be sending you an e-mail shortly or feel free to shoot me your question at:

trevor@synergystudios.tv

I really didn't want to post on this anymore but,

1. I am not going to name the people publicly who did this. What would that serve. more bashing and threads I personally don't want to read. This is my problem so I will keep it that way.

Thanks for all the support.

2. I just wanted to let everyone know that this does happen. I have gotten emails from Rob and Jason I know that you are not the people who did this but thank you for the emails. The sad thing is one of the parties who was a friend (I thought) did this on two of the auctions I had won that same day. I had also binned a N173 for $1,000 which was a good deal but the seller emailed me back and said I got offered a lot more money for it after it closed, but he was a very stand up guy and said he would honor the ebay auction. I know I didn't have to but I sent the guy an extra $500 for being a honest and rarely seen stand behind a deal guy. I wish the people who made all of these after auction offers would at least send me an email or something. I know who you are. How about a I'm sorry I just really wanted it. Maybe, Hay I didn't know it was you (which would be a lie as both of them know my ebay handle) or, I only wanted it because I secretly hate you and I know I could have sold it for more. It would be nice to hear something from people I thought where my friends. I guess jealousy and greed has no boundaries. I do have the N173 already and the Ambro is on the way. I will be keeping both in my private collection.

My email is: trevor@synergystudios.tv I'm waiting!!!

I know I'm not over reacting because both of these people would be just as upset if I where to do it to them.

Thanks again for all the support.
Trevor Hocking

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Posted By: barrysloate

It's an awfully cutthroat hobby. That's just the way it is.

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Posted By: Don J

Trevor,

Good for you! Glad to hear it worked out for you. Its too bad people are so greedy or envious that they feel the need to interfere.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Just remember, he dies with the most toys is still dead.

Jay

If you can sue a band for making you want to commit suicide, can I sue Barry Manilow for turning me into a wuss in the 70s?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

A board member, Scott Forrest, owns the only baseball opaltype I've seen or heard of. An opaltype has the general appearance of an ambrotype but is on opaque white glass and is made differently. I'm proud to say he identified the photo using my baseball photo guide, even though I didn't know one existed when I wrote it.

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Posted By: ramram

David - I'm familiar with ambrotypes on "milk glass"...is opaltype just another name for the same thing? (This is a standard ambrotype of its day but is made on a "white" sheet of glass known as "milk glass". Quite scarce.)

Rob M.