GAI - What GRADE IS THIS?

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Posted By: www.bestbaseballcards.com

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Posted By: botn

that the card would look much nicer slightly undersized in a BVG 7.5 holder.

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Posted By: Hankron

To be honest-- if your point is what I think it is, the card does not look to be Ex to me either.

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Posted By: Joe P

Is there a binder and pages for slabbed cards?
If there is, I would like to convert my T206 set into a binder for the entombed.
Thank God I only need one more card to complete the set, otherwise I wouldn't be able to carry the bloody binder around.

I hate slabs.

Contentnea's anyone?

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Posted By: Hankron

I was Contentneaed, but I added some more fiber to my diet and I'm better now.

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Posted By: Anonymous

YOU:

that the card would look much nicer slightly undersized in a BVG 7.5 holder.

ME:
that is the kind of remark that I would expect given the crowd. Obvious beckett haters, and unable to make a serious comment about a misgraded card, because you have a "need" to belong to the "click"....instead of having anything intelligent to say.

but by your comment, you OBVIOUSLY understand that the card is not as nice as the grade...so much for consistency....

I hope no one pays too much for a GAI 5....that one is obvious...others you have to look closer at... BTW, the roberto clemente was a 7 and had staining on the front as well.

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Posted By: botn

Three examples and the grading service is worthless? I guess when you are perfect like you it is easy to stand in judgment of another entity on a population of 3.

What's the matter hasn't anyone come to play over at the forum that you created?

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Dude, Give it up you have screwed your self right in to the ground and instead of taking the suggestions of sitting back and reading (that includes prevoious threads) you continue to babble here. I don't know how many times we have to tell you but here it is again:

WE DON'T DEAL WITH BECKETT BECAUSE THEY GRADE LITTLE TO NO VINTAGE CARDS AND THOSE WE HAVE NO OPINION ON THEM.

WE DON'T DEAL WITH BECKETT BECAUSE THEY GRADE LITTLE TO NO VINTAGE CARDS AND THOSE WE HAVE NO OPINION ON THEM.

WE DON'T DEAL WITH BECKETT BECAUSE THEY GRADE LITTLE TO NO VINTAGE CARDS AND THOSE WE HAVE NO OPINION ON THEM.

Do you get the point now. You have became a joke here. Do what you said in one of your posts MOVE ON.

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Posted By: botn

Lee,

He cannot move on. This is more attention then he has received in the last 2 years.

Greg

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Posted By: jay behrens

This has been done ad infinitum and is more proof that we need a search function for the forum.

We could do this pathetic little stunt you are doing with Beckett too. With every company you can find examples that are overgraded AND ungraded. So your little exercize is pointless. Now, if you can show a 100 or more examples of cards like this, then you have a legitimate gripe. Until then, give it a rest.

You obviously have your reasons for like Beckett. That's fine, but don't come here trying to sound like you know what you are talking about when you constantly put your foot in your mouth. Everyone has their reasons for prefering a particular grading company. Most poeple here prefer SGC becuase of the knowledge in the vintage card area, consistant, if harsh, grading and the attractive holders. Being realists, many slab their cards with PSA if they plan on reselling them because they currently command a premium. Whether or not this holds true in the future is yet to be seen.

But do give the whole "I love Beckett" and "what should this grade" a rest. It's been overdone and tiresome and Beckett has no presence in vintage card market, so it has no real relavence here.

Jay

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

We can all go to his site and go on his forum, boy know wouldn't that be fun. We could talk about chemistry and how it affects altered cards. Or we could talk about ballpark food. Or we could talk about the corns on my Grandma'a toes. Or we could talk about our childhood and how our brother used to be teh crap out of me.

Or we could talk about the subject the his site is all about, but that just doesn't seem like the right thing to do because of all the attention I get by being the court jester. i don't thing this board has one of them, I know we have a dunderhead but no jester yet.

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Posted By: Anonymous

YOU:

Three examples and the grading service is worthless? I guess when you are perfect like you it is easy to stand in judgment of another entity on a population of 3.

ME:

Let me guess...you are one of the big dealers that is giving GAI the business? THat is just 3/3...how many do you want. I never said they are worthless. Competition is good for the collector...it keeps them honest and reasonably priced...could you imagine if there was only one grading company...

How many beckett examples were shown to me?

I personally would like to see PSA stick around, but get some tamper proof cases, that didn't look as cheap as BCCG.

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Posted By: Anonymous

YOU:

WE DON'T DEAL WITH BECKETT BECAUSE THEY GRADE LITTLE TO NO VINTAGE CARDS AND THOSE WE HAVE NO OPINION ON THEM.

ME:
OK, You don't deal with them. Did I ask you to? Again, I merely asked what the deal with how GAI has come to such market share so fast. I understand the English language very well. Obviously better than many of you. I really don't see any sense in beating a dead horse. No one in their right mind, would send a vintage card to beckett to be graded because, they could get a much better grade from another grading company. But that won't stop me from buying a BVG...If everyone here agrees that they are tougher, it would make sense to get them....

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Posted By: Anonymous

Lee,

He cannot move on. This is more attention then he has received in the last 2 years.

ME:
Nobody here needs to reply to any of my messages. I am sure I will move on, just as soon as you stop reading and replying to my messages. If all of my points are so invalid, wouldn't it make sense to ignore them....besides you are having so much fun with me. I would hate to spoil your fun.

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Posted By: Anonymous

YOU:
We could do this pathetic little stunt you are doing with Beckett too. With every company you can find examples that are overgraded AND ungraded.

ME:
WITH EVERY COMPANY??? WELL, I WILL BE.....I THOUGHT THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY BECKETT ISN'T A CONTENDER.....SO IN ACTUALITY, ALL GRADING COMPANIES MAKE MISTAKES....oh, ok...

I agree with most of you, that Beckett isn't a contender because they are too tough for dealers...that is also why, as someone suggested here earlier that no one would break a slab to send to beckett...of course not...but the other way around sure!

If I was a dealer, I OBVIOUSLY WOULDN'T SEND VINTAGE to BECKETT EITHER. More expensive, lesser grade...you do the math...of course they will never be a contender. But, that gives me all the more reason to "buy" the NICE BVG cards when they come available. I wouldn't be surprised if the person who bought the Jackie Robinson BVG 5 for $1100 had it reslabbed a PSA 7 and sold for $5000.

YOU:
So your little exercize is pointless. Now, if you can show a 100 or more examples of cards like this, then you have a legitimate gripe. Until then, give it a rest.

ME:
Well, I only have about 20 examples so far. but I have only spent about 1 hr looking.

YOU:
You obviously have your reasons for like Beckett.

ME: I never stated that I agree with their standard. It is simply obvious that I would rather have that BVG5 Jackie Robinson than that GAI 5 whoever...

YOU:
That's fine, but don't come here trying to sound like you know what you are talking about when you constantly put your foot in your mouth.

ME: I still don't believe I have. I am just in a room of "beckett haters". If you tried going to a forum of "beckett lovers" and stating how much better PSA is than Beckett, you would have the same fun...

Fortunately for me, I have BECKETT, PSA, SGC and GAI in my collection, and do not fall in any "biased" role.

The only thing that I am aware of, that I have been corrected on, is that PSA is less than 20 years old.

YOU:
Everyone has their reasons for prefering a particular grading company. Most poeple here prefer SGC becuase of the knowledge in the vintage card area, consistant, if harsh, grading and the attractive holders. Being realists, many slab their cards with PSA if they plan on reselling them because they currently command a premium. Whether or not this holds true in the future is yet to be seen.

ME:
I like SGC too, so I have no debate there.

YOU:
But do give the whole "I love Beckett" and "what should this grade" a rest. It's been overdone and tiresome and Beckett has no presence in vintage card market, so it has no real relavence here.

ME:
Did I ever say "I LOVE BECKETT"? I said there cards are graded tougher, and if I can get a nice BVG for a good price, I will buy it!! I believe that they cost the ENTIRE vintage baseball collector community money with their implemented grading structure. Fortunately for me, my collection is relatively small and wasn't affected dramatically...I am just dealing with "change".

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

You just don't get it. I can't believe that someone that thinks he is so smart can be so stupid. Read my previuos thread Jester boy. We have very little experience with Beckett and have NO reason too, so we just don't give a damn if you prefer Beckett over PSA, GAI, or SGC, the 3 companies that grade the majority of the vintage cards.

Please refer from any more reference to Beckett, you are really giving it a bad name and hated in my book, they SUCK if you want to hear that, but then again I have NO experience with them so I have just as much knowledge as you do about GAI.

Good Night or Morning it's been fun,

Mike can you finish this guy off in only the way you can. A little barrage from SCott and a couple of scans of your great cards Leon (he has awesome cards), plus a little more good ribbing and I think we can make this complete.

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Posted By: Adam Baxter

Dear "Anonymous",

According to The American Heritage Dictionary, Third Edition:

Clique (klek, klik) n. A small, exclusive group of people.

An inability to spell correctly or construct coherent sentnces can sometimes be attributed to a literacy problem. I urge you to seek help if you need it. Former First Lady and car chaser Barbara Bush has been working tirelessly for years to battle illiteracy in this country. I beg you, don't let her effort be in vain.

Deliciously,
Mr. B

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Posted By: Anonymous

YOU:

An inability to spell correctly or construct coherent sentnces can sometimes be attributed to a literacy problem. I urge you to seek help if you need it. Former First Lady and car chaser Barbara Bush has been working tirelessly for years to battle illiteracy in this country. I beg you, don't let her effort be in vain.

ME: Please correct your spelling....you shouldn't have to look to hard.

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Posted By: Anonymous

YOU:

An inability to spell correctly or construct coherent sentnces can sometimes be attributed to a literacy problem. I urge you to seek help if you need it. Former First Lady and car chaser Barbara Bush has been working tirelessly for years to battle illiteracy in this country. I beg you, don't let her effort be in vain.

ME: Please correct your spelling....you shouldn't have to look to hard.

correction...too hard...caught it before you.

IS THIS WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO? SPELLING AND GRAMMAR? If so, I would get a "B" as compared to the majority here. Who Care's....such immaturity?! And I thought this was an "elite" group of collectors wanting to share information....and all you can come up with is correcting grammar and spelling? Correct your own group first...they need it much more so than myself.

OK...I really would like to go "in peace" without the little kid's games. Let it die, and I will be out of here.

IN CLOSING, PLEASE DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. THESE ARE THE STATEMENTS I LEAVE WITH.

1. IN MOST CASES, I would prefer to have a BVG graded card of the same grade as any other.

2. ALL GRADING COMPANIES MAKE MISTAKES

3. IT IS COMMON SENSE THAT DEALERS WON'T USE BVG AS THEIR REGULAR COMPANY TO SUBMIT TO. (COST IS HIGHER, GRADE MOST LIKELY WILL BE LOWER).

4. BECKETT HAS AN "EXTREMELY SMALL" MARKET SHARE OF VINTAGE.

5. BECKETT CARDS STATISCALLY SELL FOR MORE.

6. CASINGS HAVE BEEN TAMPERED WITH AND INFERIOR CARDS INSERTED.

7. CARDS ARE RESLABBED - AND WHATEVER REASON THAN MONETARY COULD THERE BE??

AND GET THIS......
I KNOW THAT MOST OF YOU DON'T CARE FOR BECKETT.

It doesn't hurt my feelings...I got a lot of private emails from some of the nice ones in this group, some very well respected high up individuals...and feel I can go in peace now....IF YOU LET ME without your childish attacks...stooping as low as grammar ...geesh...enjoy the hobby...that is what it is!

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Posted By: Adam Baxter

"I got a lot of private emails from some of the nice ones in this group"

I find that a little hard to believe. Most of us here put our opinions out in the open for all to see. Most of the people who have responded to your ridiculous rants are the "nice" people on this forum. You should see what it's like when the real meanies show up (Koos/Harleyman/Huff). You say it doesn't hurt your feelings that no one agrees with you and that our responses are impolite. Yet you keep posting and posting and posting and.....posting again. Your like a parrot.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Can't someone give this guy a job already? Way too much free time on his hands...

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Posted By: runscott

YOU: dfdfdlfkjdlfkjds

ME: dslfkjdslfjkdslkj

Isn't there a "Mr. Rogers" forum for this guy?

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Your point #3 is exactly why you are redoundent, I think that very few if any people on this board know the cost of BVG's grading and the type of grading they do so how can you learn it from the board. We keep telling you we know little to nothing about the company.

As far as the "nice" people emailing you, you got many people on this board that normally have nothing but knowledge to add that have told you to move on. If you read I have tried helping you several times but all you insist upon doing is beating Mr. Ed until he stops talking.

This is my final word on the matter.

Unlike you, any chance you were a day trader or invest broker prior to be unemployed?

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Posted By: jay behrens

<YOU:
That's fine, but don't come here trying to sound like you know what you are talking about when you constantly put your foot in your mouth.

ME: I still don't believe I have.>
Let's start with your "What did a PSA8 and PSA9 Rose rookie sell for 20 years ago.

You obviously have a lot to learn about the hobby but seem completely unwilling to learn. You are like 88 year old Grandpa, dead set in his ways and unwilling to change his mind.

This is the best possible place to learn about vintage cards, but you need to learn to eliminate the word BEckett from your vocabulary. Their grading service and price guide are pretty useless to use.

I will repeat this again, NO ONE HERE CARES IF BECKKETT HAS BETTER RESALE OR IS A STRICT GRADER. They can't even identify an aboviously rebacked card and have said that they will not buy back the card to remove it from the holder. What kind of confidence does that give you in their product when they won't correct mistakes and allow a fake to reside in their holder to dupe some unknowning person. Let's hope it's not you that ends up buying this card.

Jay

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Posted By: leon

I was going to stay out of it but just couldn't. I have no issue with the folks at Beckett. As a matter of fact I count 2 of their top people as good friends. (hey guys).....btw, they read the board. The issue with Beckett is their graders don't know vintage cards very well and their price guide on them is completely out of whack. They have a lion's share of the new market and that is wonderful. I hope they do great in the future, however until they put some more knowledgeable people in their vintage grading dept., they just don't have the expertise to grade what this forum is all about. You seem like a well educated, and unfortunately, unemployed person. I suggest you heed the advice of many on this board and do a little more research on vintage before you post, and vintage to us is primarily pre-'41, not '87 Topps. Good luck to you....

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Posted By: Anonymous

LEON:
I was going to stay out of it but just couldn't. I have no issue with the folks at Beckett. As a matter of fact I count 2 of their top people as good friends. (hey guys).....btw, they read the board.

ME:
GREAT, another person that isn't "ANTI-BECKETT".

LEON:
The issue with Beckett is their graders don't know vintage cards very well and their price guide on them is completely out of whack.

ME:
No debate here. PSA is less than 20 years old, so there is lots of room for Beckett to grow. It is nice to know that there isn't only one grading company though...the more established and respectable graders out there, the better for the collector. It is obvious that Beckett vintage grading is getting "better" from their initial attempts.

LEON:
You seem like a well educated, and unfortunately, unemployed person.

ME:
THank you, and it's nice to see there are some here that can have a difference of an opinion and still reamin respectable.

LEON:
I suggest you heed the advice of many on this board and do a little more research on vintage before you post, and vintage to us is primarily pre-'41, not '87 Topps. Good luck to you....

ME:
My personal interest are HOF ROOKIES FROM 1909 to present, and on the newer stuff, only the RARE ROOKIES (ie tiffanies, SP, glossys, minor league etc...). I am not about to change my interests so that I can "clicque" with the forum.

As for what grade I collect, I collect the best grade I can find for the most reasonable price within my budget....which i often go over...

I am not pro-beckett, SGC, PSA, or GAI. I collect only the nicest "centered" grade I can. The one GAI card I bought was because I haven't been able to land another nice graded Desert Storm Chipper Jones.

I am sure you are well respected here by your demeanor, and I applaud you.

Sincerely,
Mike

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Posted By: TBob

I am not pro-beckett, SGC, PSA, or GAI.>

Mike I don't think anyone here thinks for a second you are pro-SGC or pro-GAI. When it comes to vintage cards, these two companies are the best in the business at consistent grading and also the most consistent and the toughest graders of pre-war cards. The GAI Doc White card you posted elsewhere is an abberation. I can show you many GAI 2s and 3s from my collection which look gem mint compared to that example. Until Beckett lands someone with expertise and knowledge of pre-war cards they can not be comared in the same breath with SGC and GAI when it comes to grading and I think even you'll admit that. What you may or may not admit is that PSA is now grading cards which were sold through major auction houses as trimmed or altered. That is a fact, not an opinion. If you don't believe me, do a search of the altered caramel card lot from the last Mastro auction and see how many of them are currently residing in PSA holders.

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Posted By: Joe P

Hankron:

"I was Contentneaed, but I added some more fiber to my diet and I'm better now."
*
*
*
ME: **** (Sorry, I had to steal this from the Slabbed Brain)

Loved it, regards to the family.

I still hate slabs.

Mono's anyone?

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Posted By: Anonymous

YOU:
Mike I don't think anyone here thinks for a second you are pro-SGC or pro-GAI. When it comes to vintage cards, these two companies are the best in the business at consistent grading and also the most consistent and the toughest graders of pre-war cards.

ME:
Well, it depends on what you mean by "PRO-" As I stated earlier, when I search for certain players (dimaggio, cobb, cy young, christy matthewson, walter johnson, etc...) I include SGC in my search. My oldest cards are T206 Ty Cobb and Cy Young, and a 48 Leaf Jackie Robinson, are all very nice SGC. I am sincere that I remain unbiased, and the main purpose of my initial post, was to see if I would include GAI in my searches. At this point, I am not ready to do that, and the responses I have seen here have driven me further from trust than closer to trust.

It is obious that there are a lot of "GAI" biased opinions here, and submissions/reslabs for me will need to be conducted for me to formulate my "own" opinion, without outside influence.

YOU:
The GAI Doc White card you posted elsewhere is an abberation. I can show you many GAI 2s and 3s from my collection which look gem mint compared to that example.

ME:
As small as GAI is, I would think they should be a little more consistent, especially during their start-up phase. I know I have seen MANY PSA cards that were over-graded, but they have graded "MILLIONS", and their "percentage of accuracy" is respectable.

The fact that GAI and a lot of "MAJOR DEALERS" are obviously in "Bed" with each other, and that it is a "start-up" by an "individual", all scares me just a tad...but I will give them every opportunity to prove themself in my book.

YOU:
Until Beckett lands someone with expertise and knowledge of pre-war cards they can not be comared in the same breath with SGC and GAI when it comes to grading and I think even you'll admit that.

ME:
Personally, I only own 4 BVG cards, BVG 7.5 to 9, of rookies of Yastrzemski, Nolan Ryan, Eddie Murray, and Rickey Henderson, and they are all BEAUTIFUL! I had a 58 BVG 8 Mickey Mantle that I sold when I was broke, and wish I hadn't. Some big dealer bought it from me, and I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up in a psa 9 slab selling for thousands more than I got it for.
The vast majority of my vintage rookies are psa 7's and 8s, and the vast majority of my modern era cards are bgs 9/9.5. This should show very clearly that I am not PRO-BECKETT, SGC, or PSA. I trust they all do what I pay them to do, and that is to be as accurate as they know how and be 99% accurate against altered or counterfeit.

YOU:
What you may or may not admit is that PSA is now grading cards which were sold through major auction houses as trimmed or altered. That is a fact, not an opinion. If you don't believe me, do a search of the altered caramel card lot from the last Mastro auction and see how many of them are currently residing in PSA holders.

ME:
I have no reason to doubt what anyone says. I have witnessed quite a few things on my own, including the insertion of inferior cards into PSA holders by a major dealer. I am basically a very trusting person, until I discover differently. Please provide a link to what you are talking about...I would be interested, as I do have some T206 cards I still need, and do not desire to be the end of a bad deal.

Sincerely,
Mike

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Posted By: Hankron

I think the board should start referring to Mike as 'Youme.'

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Posted By: Anonymous

YOU:
I think the board should start referring to Mike as 'Youme.'

ME:
That would be the nicest thing someone has called me here....I WILL TAKE IT!!

SIGNED,
YOUME