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  #1  
Old 04-20-2017, 09:07 AM
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Default Cubs envoke $1 buyback for World Series Rings

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...aign=editorial

For those not reading the article, this doesn't apply to the players.

I think this is a good move on the part of the Cubs. I could see why the Organization would want to hold control over these if they were the ones investing in them.

The questions I have is if there is a time limit on this restriction and does it carry over to the family of the recipient in a case of them passing away?

Also from a speculative mind how quickly will someone disregard this and sell theirs and fight it out in the courts?

edit: Added info to avoid confusion on who this applies to according to article.
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:11 AM
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I actually disagree with this. The players earned them. Thet worked hard for them. They should be able to do with their ring as they wish.
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:20 AM
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I actually disagree with this. The players earned them. Thet worked hard for them. They should be able to do with their ring as they wish.
It's not the players, just the staff. That said, I am not sure I agree with it either. I can see why the team wants to do it, but the idea of gifting it with that condition is troubling to me.
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:38 AM
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It's not the players, just the staff. That said, I am not sure I agree with it either. I can see why the team wants to do it, but the idea of gifting it with that condition is troubling to me.
I just don't think there is an issue. They are essentially saying "if you would like a ring you have to promise us you won't sell it." My friend works for an MLB team and last time they won the WS he had to buy his own. In that case it makes sense, to me, that he would have full rights to the ring.
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:39 AM
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It's not the players, just the staff. That said, I am not sure I agree with it either. I can see why the team wants to do it, but the idea of gifting it with that condition is troubling to me.
If you have this condition in place, you didn't give anyone anything. You are just letting them borrow it. Its not really theirs.
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:43 AM
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I don't agree with it at all. Don't give the employees rings if you're just going to claim you own them anyway. A ring is meant to be valuable otherwise it wouldn't be made with the stones they make them with. It would just be steel. Why dangle something like that in front of people?
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:58 AM
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If you have this condition in place, you didn't give anyone anything. You are just letting them borrow it. Its not really theirs.
Questionable. There is a discussion about the Cubs paying the taxes on the rings for their lower level employees, implying the team thought they were actually conveying something of value (not just lending) to their employees. If it was a loan, I doubt there would be a discussion of taxes. It's probably a gift, just one with a built in option to purchase it back, which is weird but understandable.
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  #8  
Old 04-20-2017, 10:01 AM
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I just don't think there is an issue. They are essentially saying "if you would like a ring you have to promise us you won't sell it." My friend works for an MLB team and last time they won the WS he had to buy his own. In that case it makes sense, to me, that he would have full rights to the ring.
There are no rings without the players. It's their hard work, their labor. They are the ones who ended the long drought and produced on the field, having to overcome a 3-1 deficit in the World Series, not to mention other big playoff comebacks.

As someone who lives in a suburb outside of Chicago, the Cubs are owned by greedy people. When the White Sox won in 2005, they got their rings with no strings attached.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:17 AM
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There are no rings without the players. It's their hard work, their labor. They are the ones who ended the long drought and produced on the field, having to overcome a 3-1 deficit in the World Series, not to mention other big playoff comebacks.

As someone who lives in a suburb outside of Chicago, the Cubs are owned by greedy people. When the White Sox won in 2005, they got their rings with no strings attached.
Again you are missing the fact that this doesn't apply to the players. No player had to sign the contract. Players are free to do as they wish with their rings.
This is for the club support people.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:25 AM
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As an admin I think it's pretty short sighted to say the players are responsible for the championship. The Cubs are ultimately a business and a business depends on its employees. The players are only some of the employees. How do they think they manage to even get to games without the staff supporting them the entire way?
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:42 AM
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As an admin I think it's pretty short sighted to say the players are responsible for the championship. The Cubs are ultimately a business and a business depends on its employees. The players are only some of the employees. How do they think they manage to even get to games without the staff supporting them the entire way?
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:44 AM
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Again you are missing the fact that this doesn't apply to the players. No player had to sign the contract. Players are free to do as they wish with their rings.
This is for the club support people.
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As an admin I think it's pretty short sighted to say the players are responsible for the championship. The Cubs are ultimately a business and a business depends on its employees. The players are only some of the employees. How do they think they manage to even get to games without the staff supporting them the entire way?
From what I read, this also applies to players.

The business has no championship without its employees. We don't look at behind the scenes because it is results on the field that matter. The staff helps, yes, but the players put in the hard work and effort. You could have the greatest staff in the world. The players need to perform. They even have their names on it. It's their own personalized ring that they earned.

You have former NFL players having to sell off their Super Bowl ring(s) to pay for medical expenses. It shouldn't have to come to that, but thankfully they have such an option. These Cub players should too if they should fall on hard times.
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  #13  
Old 04-20-2017, 10:47 AM
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I'm sorry but I'm not shedding any tears for a multi-millionaire who goes bankrupt. If anything you should be advocating for the employees to be able to profit from the rings. You might have a guy making 45K with 100K in student loans who busts his butt every day for the Cubs.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:55 AM
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From what I read, this also applies to players.
The title of the article is :

"Cubs Ask Non-Players to Sign Agreement to Not Sell World Series Rings"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubs Ask Non-Players to Sign Agreement to Not Sell World Series Rings-BleacherReport
Cubs general manager Jed Hoyer is among those who support the organization's decision:
I signed that thing willingly. Everyone except for the players signed it. I look at it as the Ricketts [ownership] were so unbelievably generous in the cost of the ring and the number they gave out, I think it's totally appropriate when you're paying for the ring and helping out with the taxes along with that—it seems appropriate to say, 'I don't expect you to take the gift I'm giving you and run out to the market with it.'
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:37 AM
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I'm sorry but I'm not shedding any tears for a multi-millionaire who goes bankrupt. If anything you should be advocating for the employees to be able to profit from the rings. You might have a guy making 45K with 100K in student loans who busts his butt every day for the Cubs.
And I'd bet that with 1908 rings given out some probably went to unpaid or nearly unpaid interns.

And anyone saying the players are the only ones putting in the hard work really needs to read more about the other jobs in baseball. I might agree the owners don't do a ton of work, but the people who manage and move the equipment, the people who break down and annotate game film so the players/coaches can spot trends in how a player works, even the people who clean the place after the game all work long hours and usually for very little pay.

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Old 04-20-2017, 01:33 PM
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A Chicago museum director said in a museums management lecture that at the annual employees party, she likes it when she sees the board president standing next to the janitor who's standing next to the head curator who's standing next to a volunteer. To her, they're all part of the team.

When you go to a game, you judge the experience in major part by the comfort of the seats, the food, the help and friendliness of the workers, the cleanliness of the bathrooms, the ticket taker, the parking, etc. That has nothing to with the player employees.

Now, if your employer gives you a gift and you put it on eBay the next day, that's not a good look for when you ask for a raise or promotion-- or incentive for them to give you another gift. A person can do whatever he wants with a gift, and an employer doesn't have to renew your contact.

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Old 04-20-2017, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bn2cardz View Post
The title of the article is :

"Cubs Ask Non-Players to Sign Agreement to Not Sell World Series Rings"


Cubs general manager Jed Hoyer is among those who support the organization's decision:

I signed that thing willingly. Everyone except for the players signed it. I look at it as the Ricketts [ownership] were so unbelievably generous in the cost of the ring and the number they gave out, I think it's totally appropriate when you're paying for the ring and helping out with the taxes along with that—it seems appropriate to say, 'I don't expect you to take the gift I'm giving you and run out to the market with it.'

The Cubs Multi-Millionaire General Manager signed it willingly. Good for him. LOL!




Just don't give gifts if you want to put stipulations on them. Basically the Cubs want first rights for resale if they ever go to market again.

The Cubs ownership are so unbelievably generous in regards to the cost of the rings and the number they gave out, that they want them back if you actually treat the item as a "gift".

From the article I read, this also applies to future family members who inherit the ring. What incredible foresight from the Cubs ownership with this Scientology like perpetuity clause.

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  #18  
Old 04-20-2017, 02:26 PM
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Just don't tell anyone you sold it. There are plenty of people that would keep it in their collection without telling the world they have one. Even so, as long as the buyer does not reveal from whom they obtained it, who could find out which of the 1,000+ people sold it?
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:35 PM
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Just don't tell anyone you sold it. There are plenty of people that would keep it in their collection without telling the world they have one. Even so, as long as the buyer does not reveal from whom they obtained it, who could find out which of the 1,000+ people sold it?
This is what I was wondering as well. How well can it be enforced. Did they serial number them? Does the seller then make the buyer sign an agreement that states they won't publicly sell it?


Also for those that say you can't give rings with stipulations I would like to fully disclose that I have given a ring to someone with a stipulation... and we are still married
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:39 PM
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I don't see how the agreement could be transferable either. For example, let's say the original owner gifts the ring to a child relative who then decides to sell the ring. How can a contract be enforced on a child?
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:44 PM
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It's rare, but I believe one can't sell one's Oscar. One was put up for auction a couple of years ago and there was a lawsuit over it.

The Medal of Honor can't be sold-- but that's a Federal law thing.
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Old 04-20-2017, 03:29 PM
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It's rare, but I believe one can't sell one's Oscar. One was put up for auction a couple of years ago and there was a lawsuit over it.

The Medal of Honor can't be sold-- but that's a Federal law thing.
This is true. So I guess another followup question is will this start a trend throughout MLB? If so what does that do to the conductibility and value of rings?
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Old 04-20-2017, 03:51 PM
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It would be nice if the players refused the rings in support of the staff but I wouldn't hold my breath on it.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:08 PM
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I don't see what the big uproar is all about. Is it typical for low level employees to always get rings? I'd be thrilled just to get one regardless of the stipulations. Would people really be ticked if someone gave them a Ferrari as a "loaner" in perpetuity? I look at it similar to players not wanting to sign autographs for grown men because they fear they will just be sold on ebay. In this case it's even worse because it has more meaning. I don't know maybe I'm just being callous but I think it was totally reasonable.

BTW before anyone says a Ferrari is a terrible analogy I think a lot of twenty something ticket salesman will be just as well off with the coeds by being able to sport a WS ring in the windy city!

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Old 04-20-2017, 04:31 PM
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It's rare, but I believe one can't sell one's Oscar. One was put up for auction a couple of years ago and there was a lawsuit over it.

The Medal of Honor can't be sold-- but that's a Federal law thing.
This is true for newer ones. Older ones, especially from the Civil War have been sold and not just the ones from that Maine Regiment that received them just for re-enlisting. Theirs were rescinded, but they are still out in the market.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:35 PM
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I don't see what the big uproar is all about. Is it typical for low level employees to always get rings? I'd be thrilled just to get one regardless of the stipulations. Would people really be ticked if someone gave them a Ferrari as a "loaner" in perpetuity? I look at it similar to players not wanting to sign autographs for grown men because they fear they will just be sold on ebay. In this case it's even worse because it has more meaning. I don't know maybe I'm just being callous but I think it was totally reasonable.

BTW before anyone says a Ferrari is a terrible analogy I think a lot of twenty something ticket salesman will be just as well off with the coeds by being able to sport a WS ring in the windy city!
It sets a bad precedent because it makes needless insinuations about your employees.

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Old 04-20-2017, 05:27 PM
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1,908 rings. Thats too many. The Cubs created their own problem and are trying to second guess it. I don't think every person who works for them should get a ring. They should have given it to top level staff and then maybe employees with 25+ years or something like that. Or make them pay for them.
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:56 PM
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Just be glad you don't live in a state being run by the Ricketts family.
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Old 04-20-2017, 07:20 PM
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Default World Series Rings

According to an entry on page 504 of The Cultural Encyclopedia of Baseball (2nd edition), The feud between 1940s Dodgers Co-owners Walter OMalley and Branch Rickey spilled over into World Series rings. When Rickey ordered World Series rings for the Dodgers in 1949, OMalley insisted they turn in their 1947 rings before receiving new ones.

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Old 04-20-2017, 08:39 PM
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One buck sounds about right for a stinking Cubs ring.
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:06 PM
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One buck sounds about right for a stinking Cubs ring.
I don't know, you'd think they could at least offer spot price on the gold.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:50 PM
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Got to hold one today, dang they are nice! Heavy lil' things.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:23 AM
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My brother worked for the Angels when they won the Series. He asked his boss for a t-shirt and a hat, the boss said no. My brother was ticked that he couldn't get a free stinking hat and shirt, so decided to quit. He went back to tell his boss to shove it, before he said anything, his boss told him he hadn't gone to the HR office yet. My brother said what for? His boss said to get fitted for your ring. His ring has our last name on it, so they would know if he ever sold it. The employee rings are not as big as the player rings, but they are still cool, especially when they have your name on them. He had to sign an agreement that he wouldn't sell for x number of years, I believe. I doubt anyone would take the time from the organization to litigate over an employee selling their ring, they aren't as valuable as the player rings, and not worth the money to get the ring. The contract is more likely a way to get rid of an employee that sells their ring while still employed with the team, it looks bad if your employee does that.
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Old 04-21-2017, 06:02 AM
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And I'd bet that with 1908 rings given out some probably went to unpaid or nearly unpaid interns.



And anyone saying the players are the only ones putting in the hard work really needs to read more about the other jobs in baseball. I might agree the owners don't do a ton of work, but the people who manage and move the equipment, the people who break down and annotate game film so the players/coaches can spot trends in how a player works, even the people who clean the place after the game all work long hours and usually for very little pay.



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World Series rings didn't come in to vogue until 1922...


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Old 04-21-2017, 07:25 AM
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World Series rings didn't come in to vogue until 1922...


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1,908 rings were given out by the Cubs this year. He wasn't referencing the year 1908.
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Old 04-21-2017, 07:32 AM
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Maybe it's a lease? And if you wear the rings more than x amount per year you have to pay more.

Personally, if I was getting a ring with conditions I would just let the club keep it. And I agree, too many rings given out in the first place. A crazy number, actually.

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Questionable. There is a discussion about the Cubs paying the taxes on the rings for their lower level employees, implying the team thought they were actually conveying something of value (not just lending) to their employees. If it was a loan, I doubt there would be a discussion of taxes. It's probably a gift, just one with a built in option to purchase it back, which is weird but understandable.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:18 AM
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Maybe it's a lease? And if you wear the rings more than x amount per year you have to pay more.

Personally, if I was getting a ring with conditions I would just let the club keep it. And I agree, too many rings given out in the first place. A crazy number, actually.
I would certainly still take the ring under the conditions that the Cubs handed them out this year, but I would probably think less of management for doing it that way. I agree though that 1,908 rings is a crazy amount of rings...there's no way they have that many people working for them. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of Ameritrade employees in Omaha getting rings too.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:27 AM
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1,908 rings were given out by the Cubs this year. He wasn't referencing the year 1908.


Gotcha...my bad! Carry on...


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I collect Hal Chase, Diamond Stars (PSA 5 or better), 1951 Bowman (Raw Ex or better), 1954 Topps (PSA 7 or better), 1956 Topps (Raw Ex or better), 3x5 Hall of Fame Autographs and autographed Perez Steele Postcards. You can see my collection by going to http://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/BigSix.
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  #39  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:49 PM
Bestdj777 Bestdj777 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Maybe it's a lease? And if you wear the rings more than x amount per year you have to pay more.

Personally, if I was getting a ring with conditions I would just let the club keep it. And I agree, too many rings given out in the first place. A crazy number, actually.
I'd lease it . I've always thought it would be nice to own a ring. One day the Yankees will recognize my talent (and maybe win another World Series) and I'll get mine.
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  #40  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:39 PM
whitehse whitehse is offline
And.rew Whi.te
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Maybe it's a lease? And if you wear the rings more than x amount per year you have to pay more.

Personally, if I was getting a ring with conditions I would just let the club keep it. And I agree, too many rings given out in the first place. A crazy number, actually.
Leon, not to disagree with you but if you worked in sports and received a ring with conditions there is no way you would refuse it.

From your first day working for a team you dream about that ring and pray that some day you will see one with your name on it. You see other teams come through and those who had previously won are sporting their rings and you ask to see them. You marvel at the gold, the diamonds, the sheer size of that piece of jewelry and you just know you HAVE to have one. You work your tail off and help the team in any way you can become successful knowing that if the team is ever fortunate enough to hit the pinnacle of their game, you will be rewarded with a piece of jewelry that others only aspire to have. Game seven of the World Series comes around and here you are, sweating bullets as the boys on the field are battling it out. You know you did all you could to give them the edge in this game be it by scouting, by preparing the video tape or even grooming the mound to give the home team the best advantage. That last out is made and your thoughts are not that you are the world champions but damn, when do I get my ring?

You then wait all winter after being fitted for the ring. You hear stories of what it will look like but nobody ever confirms it. Opening day comes and the pennant is raised but you still have to wait for your ring. The next game you see the players get theirs but still you do not have yours. Th excitement is building because you now have seen what the players have received and even though yours may not contain the same amount of diamonds or gold, you know its a worlds champion ring with YOUR name on it.

The day comes where all of the staff assemble on the field and you are called, one by one to home plate and presented with a box that holds that worlds champion ring with your name on it. You open the box and a tear comes to your eye as you realize this moment is the culmination of everything you and the team has worked for. You don't care that those sparkles are not diamonds because that ring says champion on it with your name on the side. Someone sticks a paper in front of you and tells you to sign it and you do, not because you want to keep your job but because you want that reward of a job well done. A reminder to anyone who sees that boulder sized ring that you are a champion and you made it to the top!!

I used to work for a major league team and saw my ring flying over the fence in 1984 when Steve Garvey hit that home run against the Cubs. I have a friend from my time with the team that now has three Stanley Cup rings and another friend who just received his Cubs ring this year. If he wouldn't be pissed at me I could show you the photo he texted me right after getting that ring and that grin on his face tells the whole story. I can tell you that after three decades with the team he would have signed away the rights to his first born to keep that ring.

Leon, please dont take this the wrong way but I can tell you from personal experience, you would never give that ring up if you worked for a team that won.
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  #41  
Old 04-22-2017, 06:33 AM
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ibuysportsephemera ibuysportsephemera is offline
Jeff G@rf!nkel
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Maybe if they had given the employees an option? We will pay the taxes but have right of first refusal to buy it back if you sell it. If you pay the taxes, you are free to do what you want with the ring in the future.

Too late now, but it would have made for an interesting dilemma for the employees.

Jeff
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  #42  
Old 04-22-2017, 07:13 AM
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Leon Leon is online now
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I might change my mind but I am pretty sure I wouldn't take anything with strings attached as to ownership. It goes against my grain, sorry about that. I am confident I wouldn't want a ring that wasn't 100% mine. I don't do leases. And you mention he would have signed over his first born to KEEP the ring. But it's not his to Keep and he can't do what he wants with it......not my cup o tea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitehse View Post
Leon, not to disagree with you but if you worked in sports and received a ring with conditions there is no way you would refuse it.

From your first day working for a team you dream about that ring and pray that some day you will see one with your name on it. You see other teams come through and those who had previously won are sporting their rings and you ask to see them. You marvel at the gold, the diamonds, the sheer size of that piece of jewelry and you just know you HAVE to have one. You work your tail off and help the team in any way you can become successful knowing that if the team is ever fortunate enough to hit the pinnacle of their game, you will be rewarded with a piece of jewelry that others only aspire to have. Game seven of the World Series comes around and here you are, sweating bullets as the boys on the field are battling it out. You know you did all you could to give them the edge in this game be it by scouting, by preparing the video tape or even grooming the mound to give the home team the best advantage. That last out is made and your thoughts are not that you are the world champions but damn, when do I get my ring?

You then wait all winter after being fitted for the ring. You hear stories of what it will look like but nobody ever confirms it. Opening day comes and the pennant is raised but you still have to wait for your ring. The next game you see the players get theirs but still you do not have yours. Th excitement is building because you now have seen what the players have received and even though yours may not contain the same amount of diamonds or gold, you know its a worlds champion ring with YOUR name on it.

The day comes where all of the staff assemble on the field and you are called, one by one to home plate and presented with a box that holds that worlds champion ring with your name on it. You open the box and a tear comes to your eye as you realize this moment is the culmination of everything you and the team has worked for. You don't care that those sparkles are not diamonds because that ring says champion on it with your name on the side. Someone sticks a paper in front of you and tells you to sign it and you do, not because you want to keep your job but because you want that reward of a job well done. A reminder to anyone who sees that boulder sized ring that you are a champion and you made it to the top!!

I used to work for a major league team and saw my ring flying over the fence in 1984 when Steve Garvey hit that home run against the Cubs. I have a friend from my time with the team that now has three Stanley Cup rings and another friend who just received his Cubs ring this year. If he wouldn't be pissed at me I could show you the photo he texted me right after getting that ring and that grin on his face tells the whole story. I can tell you that after three decades with the team he would have signed away the rights to his first born to keep that ring.

Leon, please dont take this the wrong way but I can tell you from personal experience, you would never give that ring up if you worked for a team that won.
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Last edited by Leon; 04-22-2017 at 07:15 AM.
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  #43  
Old 04-22-2017, 08:29 AM
murphusa murphusa is offline
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Don't worry, there will be hundreds of "salesman samples" on the market to buy
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  #44  
Old 04-22-2017, 04:27 PM
Dave Grob Dave Grob is offline
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Default Cubs WS Rings

As time goes by, I wonder how may people will claim they were offered a Cubs WS ring, but declined because of the resale clause. Sort of like the all the people who claimed they were at Woodstock in 1969 or that their mom threw out their Mantle rookie cards.

Dave Grob
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  #45  
Old 04-25-2017, 08:51 AM
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sports-rings sports-rings is offline
Mi_ch.ael Bo,rk_in
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sorry, I'm late to this marvelous post!

While the employees had to promise not to resell the rings they are allowed to gift them to family members. And like it was mentioned earlier, there are probably no restrictions on family members selling them.

I hate to put a price on everything, but since we are discussing this, the employee rings will be smaller, and many of them will contain non precious metals and stones.

Non precious metal and stones, and a smaller size, will cause these rings to sell for less than $1,000 in the market place until enough have sold to satisfy demand and at that point, prices will continue to go lower.

Just look at the Yankee 2009 rings given to ballpark ushers and vendors. They can be had for a few hundred dollars.
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  #46  
Old 04-29-2017, 05:38 PM
whitehse whitehse is offline
And.rew Whi.te
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sports-rings View Post
sorry, I'm late to this marvelous post!

While the employees had to promise not to resell the rings they are allowed to gift them to family members. And like it was mentioned earlier, there are probably no restrictions on family members selling them.

I hate to put a price on everything, but since we are discussing this, the employee rings will be smaller, and many of them will contain non precious metals and stones.

Non precious metal and stones, and a smaller size, will cause these rings to sell for less than $1,000 in the market place until enough have sold to satisfy demand and at that point, prices will continue to go lower.

Just look at the Yankee 2009 rings given to ballpark ushers and vendors. They can be had for a few hundred dollars.
I can personally vouch for the fact that the front office rings are not smaller....



The information I have is that the gold content is a little different from what the players received but most everything else is the same. My contact is having his appraised by a jeweler and I can report back later his findings if anyone is interested. This is one beast of a ring!!
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