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  #21  
Old 11-19-2007, 10:57 AM
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Default Kevin Saucier - Adding Value

Posted By: MikeU

Jim,

Taking the element out of my post of trying to get in your head, I think it does give a clear illustration of the potential Kevin could bring vs. simply being a set of 2nd eyes. I strongly disagree that it would simply not be workable. It is only not workable if Kevin does not truly have the skill-set to objectively show PSA, BVG, GAI and SGC their errors. Without this, you are right, no dealer would agree to have his cards blacklisted by someone with no respect/skill-set.

However, with respect and skill-set, Kevin could single handedly assist dealers in getting reimbursed for bunk cards from graders. This is where Kevin would have a true value proposition vs. just another set of 2nd eyes.

In your SGC example, lets say Kevin says an SGC card is bunk. He has objective information and the collector or dealer and Kevin go to Dave Forman for an answer. There are a couple of options:

1. Kevin objectively shows Dave the problem, he agrees and pulls the card off the market.
2. Dave shows Kevin why he is wrong.
3. There is an impass. For this, I think Kevin should have two categories of rejection i.e. some doubt of authenticy/alteration, but can not completely substantiate the doubt and no doubt with objective information that the card is not authentic or is altered. I think the no doubt categories could be argued with the grading companies. The "some doubt" statements are meaningless.

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  #22  
Old 11-19-2007, 11:01 AM
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Default Kevin Saucier - Adding Value

Posted By: JimCrandell

Matt,

I don't think its the same--a dealer could always sell the card raw if it did not grade.

Lee,

I agree with part of what you say. I think in the beginning Kevin works for who pays him and no disclosure is necessary.

Over time, it would be great if buyers demanded Kevin's approval on graded cards--not holding my breath on this one however.

Frank,

Who is to say it happened? Kevin said it--are you suggesting he is lieing? All one would have to do is ask Mike.

On your second point, I don't think its clearcut on every card. Reasonable people can disagree. If he has doubts I will pass.

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  #23  
Old 11-19-2007, 11:03 AM
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Default Kevin Saucier - Adding Value

Posted By: peter chao

It was mentioned earlier...Kevin consider buying out or merging with GAI. At this time buying them out would be relatively inexpensive. It probably would require no more than a minimal investment. Pay for their business license, back rent, and a few extra dollars for what remains of their goodwill.

Peter C.

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  #24  
Old 11-19-2007, 11:06 AM
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Default Kevin Saucier - Adding Value

Posted By: G. Maines

Consultants are commonly employed, and most provide their services confidentially. Medical, Legal, Technical. Professional, and other experts are routine in the considerations of many.

There is no cause to assume that services which Kevin may offer should fall outside of this framework, unless it is perceived as advantageous to those directly involved. imo

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  #25  
Old 11-19-2007, 11:07 AM
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Default Kevin Saucier - Adding Value

Posted By: Steve

Kevin/Jim, Your ideas are a positive step though controversial with collectors.

I'm no businessman but have you considered this route?.. Offer a Grade School -short course or workshop to furthur certify the current employees that work for psa, sgc, bvg, gai etc. You could even develop a program for the collectors themselves, that would likely garner great interest.

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  #26  
Old 11-19-2007, 11:08 AM
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Default Kevin Saucier - Adding Value

Posted By: JimCrandell

Mike,

It would be nice if everything worked out like you described but I just don't think its realistic. Do not believe Joe Orlando would entertain the idea of Kevin showing their expert graders why they are wrong. Also again I would come back to the point that Kevin if he undertakes this has got to driven ultimately by economics. Just do not see the econonmics of your business model.

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  #27  
Old 11-19-2007, 11:12 AM
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Default Kevin Saucier - Adding Value

Posted By: Dan Bretta

Ahhhh....now I understand why no one comes forth with any evidence of these altered cards. They are reserving their right to recirculate the card back into the hobby at a maximum profit.

So far I am unimpressed with any efforts to clean up the hobby.

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  #28  
Old 11-19-2007, 11:56 AM
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Default Kevin Saucier - Adding Value

Posted By: Bob

<<<All that said, these repeated discussions sadden me. If I can't either a) educate myself to some limited degree for becoming comfortable with cards or b) take a leap of faith and trust the dealers/collectors with whom I trade and do business, then the hobby lacks that pizazz that made me want to collect again.

But if I can't have fun in this hobby, I'll simply walk away. These dicsussions are important...but in my mind, they should be in the 10% range of what we spend our time discussing. >>>>

Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you Marc.
tbob

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  #29  
Old 11-19-2007, 11:58 AM
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Default Kevin Saucier - Adding Value

Posted By: cmoking

A list of the certs are almost useless when companies like Memory Lane can get Joe Orlando to change them for them in a deceptive manner.

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  #30  
Old 11-19-2007, 12:09 PM
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Default Kevin Saucier - Adding Value

Posted By: Kevin Sacuier



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