Psa 8 (st)

ruth-gehrig · #1 03-15-2014, 05:01 PM

So is it common for a card with a small stain with all the other qualities of a PSA 8 to be designated PSA 8 (ST)???

D.P.Johnson · #2 03-15-2014, 05:16 PM

Yes.

familytoad · #3 03-15-2014, 06:28 PM

I thought it stood for Stupid.

NM except for stain.
Brilliant.

chipperhank44 · #4 03-15-2014, 06:38 PM

"Stupid" <--- Agree completely. I have never understood qualifiers. It's a completely ridiculous and inconclusive way to grade a card. You're being told what a card would have graded if it weren't for some fault.... I always thought the point of grading was to know what the actual condition of the card is. And we're still left wondering what an 8 with a stain would grade. Is it a 4 or a 6? Your guess is as good as mine.

ruth-gehrig · #5 03-15-2014, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipperhank44

"Stupid" <--- Agree completely. I have never understood qualifiers. It's a completely ridiculous and inconclusive way to grade a card. You're being told what a card would have graded if it weren't for some fault.... I always thought the point of grading was to know what the actual condition of the card is. And we're still left wondering what an 8 with a stain would grade. Is it a 4 or a 6? Your guess is as good as mine.

Exactly what I think! When will they start adding PSA (C1) meaning it would be an 8 if it wasn't for the 1 soft corner?

digdugdig · #6 03-15-2014, 10:35 PM

I think the late George Carlin would have had fun with this ... words that shouldn't be associated with each other ... i.e. military intelligence, politically correct, property management, uh ... near mint o/c.
Shouldn't they be called "disqualifiers"!!
What's next ... NrMt (nc) - no corners!!!
Don't get me started...........oooppps.......too late!!

glynparson · #7 03-16-2014, 12:49 AM

They give a more accurate description and many of the qualifiers were used prior to grading particularly the oc qualifier. There is none for corners/wear because that is the number one factor in determining condition all the other things usually follow off that.

freakhappy · #8 03-16-2014, 01:19 AM

I don't hate qualifiers, but I don't really like them. My biggest pet peeve with qualifiers is a lot of people try and succeed in selling these qualified stricken cards at or near the price of their non qualified cousin. I respect what PSA was trying to do, but in the end, why not just grade the overall card without these little asterisks beside the pseudo grade?

Just not worth it IMO...

bobbyw8469 · #9 03-16-2014, 05:32 AM

I like qualifiers. For example, when you see PSA 8 (OC), they are telling you that the card is a NM/MT card were it not for a centering shift that happened at the factory and is totally out of the cards control. It allows you to get a NM/MT card at a fraction of the price. It is not fair to give a card like that the lower grade, because they card really isn't a '6'. It has NM/MT corners, surface and edges.

chipperhank44 · #10 03-16-2014, 07:50 AM

Although I don't understand qualifiers at all, I can attempt to understand the "off center" and "print defect" type qualifiers because, as bobbyw8469 said, they are factory defects. But to have "stain" and "mark" as qualifiers, that's even more illogical than OC and PD. At the end of the day though, whether the factory or an owner caused the card to be in a certain condition, it is in that condition. It's like trying to get a premium for your car with hail damage because the hail damage occurred at the dealership.

I Only Smoke 4 the Cards · #11 03-16-2014, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freakhappy

I don't hate qualifiers, but I don't really like them. My biggest pet peeve with qualifiers is a lot of people try and succeed in selling these qualified stricken cards at or near the price of their non qualified cousin. I respect what PSA was trying to do, but in the end, why not just grade the overall card without these little asterisks beside the pseudo grade?

Just not worth it IMO...

Agreed

4815162342 · #12 03-16-2014, 08:11 AM

If any of you were selling an SGC 6 with nm-mt corners, you would describe it as "great eye appeal! Sharp corners!" PSA is just labeling the same thing.

novakjr · #13 03-16-2014, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipperhank44

Although I don't understand qualifiers at all, I can attempt to understand the "off center" and "print defect" type qualifiers because, as bobbyw8469 said, they are factory defects. But to have "stain" and "mark" as qualifiers, that's even more illogical than OC and PD. At the end of the day though, whether the factory or an owner caused the card to be in a certain condition, it is in that condition. It's like trying to get a premium for your car with hail damage because the hail damage occurred at the dealership.

I'm right there with you. I think where PSA messed up on the ST qualifier is that it includes BOTH stains caused in packaging and after the fact stains. It really should've been limited to gum and wax stains. With PD OC and many of the STs, the grade at least reflects how the card has been handled since leaving the package, while acknowledging that the card is ultimately in lesser condition due to factors outside of collector's hands.

MK and ST(for after the fact stains), probably shouldn't be used..

bobbyw8469 · #14 03-16-2014, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipperhank44

Although I don't understand qualifiers at all, I can attempt to understand the "off center" and "print defect" type qualifiers because, as bobbyw8469 said, they are factory defects. But to have "stain" and "mark" as qualifiers, that's even more illogical than OC and PD. At the end of the day though, whether the factory or an owner caused the card to be in a certain condition, it is in that condition. It's like trying to get a premium for your car with hail damage because the hail damage occurred at the dealership.

It's no different than picking up a woman at a bar. She would be a 9 if her breath didn't smell so bad. She would be a 10 if she had a bit more upstairs.

MikeGarcia · #15 03-16-2014, 08:37 AM

I couldn't sell these fast enough , just to get them out of the house ; yet they drew a lot of bids and surprisingly-high final prices and glowing thank-yous in feedback........beauty is in the eye of the beholder....

leaflover · #16 03-16-2014, 03:59 PM

This beauty is in my collection only because of the (ST). The price was right.

pclpads · #17 03-16-2014, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leaflover

This beauty is in my collection only because of the (ST). The price was right.

Unless the back stain looks much worse in hand than on the scan, giving a card that nice a "Q" is ridiculous. Nice p/u!

midwaylandscaping · #18 03-17-2014, 02:45 PM

Great Herzog IMO. I wouldn't think twice about having that card in my collection

I Only Smoke 4 the Cards · #19 03-17-2014, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pclpads

Unless the back stain looks much worse in hand than on the scan, giving a card that nice a "Q" is ridiculous. Nice p/u!

I totally agree. I had to do a double take to notice.

brewing · #20 03-17-2014, 07:18 PM

Is it me, or do cards with qualifiers seem over graded?

Ronnie73 · #21 03-17-2014, 08:13 PM

I actually do like the qualifiers but usually don't buy them unless its a rare card that rarely shows up for sale. I don't really have a preference over PSA and SGC but I do prefer PSA for grades 1, 1.5, and 2 but without qualifiers. An SGC 10 graded card can span a bunch of ranges including miscuts, massive paper loss, and ink marks. I try to stay away from them and purchase only the good clean even wear cards. No matter how much we talk about it, it always comes down to buying the card and not the holder. The grade on the holder is just someone's opinion to me but my eyes are the final decision maker.

bn2cardz · #22 03-24-2014, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipperhank44

Although I don't understand qualifiers at all, I can attempt to understand the "off center" and "print defect" type qualifiers because, as bobbyw8469 said, they are factory defects. But to have "stain" and "mark" as qualifiers, that's even more illogical than OC and PD. At the end of the day though, whether the factory or an owner caused the card to be in a certain condition, it is in that condition. It's like trying to get a premium for your car with hail damage because the hail damage occurred at the dealership.

Comparing it to a hail damaged car from a dealership is so wrong. Hail damage is still not a "factory" error. The dealership is a previous owner of the car.

I love PSA qualifiers. It is the biggest reason I like PSA. I really would love to see a grading company that put two grades on the card. The two grades would be a Factory grade and a Post factory grade. This would be great for people like me that absolutely don't care about factory caused errors, paper loss and rounded corners ruin a card far more than off centering and Print defects (I do collect all low grade cards, but prefer the post factory mint cards). BVG did have the 4 grades and that was nice, but they got rid of it entirely.