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#1
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Quote:
It is called fraud. "Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact,(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result." - http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/fraud In the PSA agreement: "Customer represents and warrants that it has no knowledge and no reasonable basis to believe that any card submitted for grading has been altered in any way or is not genuine." So if someone knowingly alters a card and submits it, they meet items 1 and 2. Let's say PSA doesn't catch it and slabs it as graded. If the submitter then sells the card, they have then met item 3, and assuming that the buyer is relying on the PSA grade (item 4 and the signed PSA agreement) and would not knowingly pay the same price for an altered card (item 5), the seller has now met all 5 criteria for fraud. The extent of PSA's liability does not matter regarding the actions of the original submitter. The original submitter, without full disclosure to the buyer, could still be committing an act of fraud. Maybe the lawyers could explain it a little better than I? |
#2
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That's an excellent point. I read that not too long ago and I was wondering how long has PSA had that agreement on their submission forms. Does anyone still have some really old submission forms to verify that this disclosure existed a long time ago or was it rather a relatively recent addition?
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain |
#3
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Ya think that clause has been violated a couple of times here and there? LOL.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#4
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#5
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They had this provision on the coin side for some time -- was the basis for a lawsuit that quick research shows was filed but never actually served.
http://www.coinlink.com/News/pdf/CU_vs_Coin_doctors.pdf
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#6
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As I recall the judge threw out the case for a number of reasons. One reason was several of the defendants were from California, so the Federal court had no jurisdiction. As for the rest, as I recall, the judge threw it out because it basically amounted to CU suing it's dealers for damages incurred for CU's own incompetence. It should be on PACER.GOV.
__________________
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain |
#7
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Far above Cayuga's waters class of 1984
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#8
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"Blackbird" The Beatles, class of 68
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#9
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This article suggests the suit was never served. http://www.coinworld.com/articles/de...erse-attorneys
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#10
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Scariest thing about the coin doctoring is the surfaces are smoothed using a laser. Wouldn't that be virtually impossible to detect?
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#11
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Quote:
__________________
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain |
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