who is Sutor, San Francisco in the Obak T212 set???

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I don't have a Sutor Obak card. If I did, I'd post a scan.

The caption is Sutor, San Francisco P.C.L.

The SCD Standard Catalog lists the card as Sutor. As does Mr. Lipset's fine Encyclopedia vol 3, as does The Sports Collectors Bible.

Dennis Snelling, in his great book, The Pacific Coast League, A Statistical History, 1903-1957, shows a guy pitching for San Francisco in 1908, 1910, and 1911 by the name of R Suter. The guy depicted on the card has ball and glove together over his head, as if in a pitcher's windup. Mr. Lipset listed a T4 in an auction and described it as 'Handsome Harry' Suter, a pitcher for the Seals.

So I think the card has the name wrong, it is Suter, not Sutor. Given that, is R Suter = Handsome Harry Suter, or what??

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Posted By: john/z28jd

His name is Harry Sutor. He is listed in the SABR minor league database. According to one site he is the Seals single season strikeout holder with 339 in 1911

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Thank you, John.

I was brain dead and didn't check there. Handsome Harry, or Rube, Suter. So Snelling gets the 'R' from Rube, maybe.


And the reason he's not with the Seals in 1909 is because he's up with the White Sox in Chicago, I now see!!! He had a 2-3 record in 18 games. Started 7, completed 3, and he had one shutout. Up all year with a 2.47 ERA.

It would be neat to figure out when that one shutout was, and get the newspaper account and box score. I have part of 1909 Sporting Life on microfilm, but I have to go to a library to use it. Seems like some sort of equipment could be made so that you could load microfilm into the little thing and make your pc and printer suitable to access and print it. I'm sure software would be needed too. Someone should make that!!

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Posted By: Max Weder

Thanks to http://www.retrosheet.org, it was the second game of a doubleheader on September 8, 1909 when Harry achieved his fame

9- 8-1909 2 At STL A W 4- 0 66-63 Suter Bailey

Max

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Posted By: Dave F

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Thank you all.

Handsome Harry Suter.


I like that 1911 Obak because it says a bit about him, and has that 1909 gap when he was 'back east'. Anyone have the 1910 card??

The microfilm roll I have of Sporting Life runs March 13, 1909 through March 5, 1910. I will make my way to a library in a few days and see what's in there about that Sept 8th 1909 shutout.


And I'll try to get the Standard Catalog folks to note that the card says Sutor but that the player is Suter.

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Posted By: Steve Murray

Suter on the front and on the flip. Sutor on the reverse in the checklist.

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Posted By: Anthony S.

Frank,

The 1910 Obak Sutor uses the same pose as the 1911 Obak Sutor, so their fronts are identical.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Handsome Harry Suter pitched his shut out in the second game of a Wednesday double header, 4-0. Ed Walsh pitched the first game.

Suter allowed 6 singles and a walk, was helped by one double play. T206 guys on his team that day were ss Freddy Parent, lf Patsy Dougherty, rf Fred Payne, 3b Lee Tannehill, 2b Billy Purtell, and c Billy Sullivan. Suter even managed to get himself a hit in 4 at bats. Freddy Parent had 2 hits, one was a double, the lone extra base hit of the game.

Attendance was listed as 900. 1:40 for the first game, Suter won his in 1:34. Silk O'Loughlin ( http://www.thedeadballera.com/Obits/Olaughlin.Silk.Obit.html ) called both games.


Now if I could find a super affordable microfilm machine for my home, with an output that I could feed to a pc.

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Posted By: Max Weder

Frank



Much of The Sporting Life from this era is available on-line.





The search site is at


http://www.la84foundation.org/5va/serials_frmst.htm

The years covered are 1896-98, 1904-09, 1911 to 1914 and 1917.


Max

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Posted By: dstudeba

It is different on the Type II

(from Leon's collection)

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Posted By: Matt

They flipped the negative and cropped it.

My Trade/Sale Page

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Max,



Thanks. I'd been to that site before. I wish I could keep it in
mind. Seemed to me that they didn't have "years" of SL, but
rather scattered issues. There's lots to click on, but those are
individual pages.


And guys,

Type I and Type II...

The way they're designated seems improbable. Type I has his name
spelled correctly, Suter. Type II has it incorrect, Sutor. Would it
not seem more likely that they'd have it wrong initially, then
correct it? That seems more likely to me than having it correct,
then changing it and getting it wrong. Is it possible Type II cards
chronologically precede Type I's?

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Posted By: dstudeba

Interesting point Frank, I am not sure I have ever seen information on which one was published first. Since type IIs are scarcer it might just be that the Type Is were catalogued first.


Personally however I think it is a correct designation since I have heard that Type IIs were created by TCMA in the 1970s.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I'd not heard that Tom Collier and Michael Aronstein had anything to do with the making of those cards. I don't have one. Have you ever illuminated one with a black light??

Anyone else here heard of TCMA making those rascals??

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Posted By: dstudeba

Sorry Frank, a poor late night joke. The reason I heard that was because I said it. Unfortunately Leon and Mark Macrae disagree with me otherwise I would have more....