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  #1  
Old 10-21-2017, 10:04 AM
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Default PWCC Certified High End Cards:

From what I understand, a certified high end card is any card that looks better than the grade it received. PWCC will then put a sticker behind the slab which contains a serial number. These HE cards bring in big money, and can sell for double or even triple than what they would normally go for. Here is one listing I recently came across:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-Topps-...p2047675.l2557

Bobby Orr is one of the greatest hockey players of all-time and this is his rookie card. A PSA 2 normally sells between $1,000 - $1,200 USD. This one however went for almost $5,500 which is nuts because that's how much a PSA 6 would bring in. Now I understand why this card got the HE designation because it has pretty good centering, edges, and near mint corners. However, there are creases on the reverse side, as stated in the description. Would you spend that much on a PSA 2 when you can get a PSA 6 with that money? Is there something I am missing here? Maybe this card is going to get soaked and the creases will be pressed out? If it does get a PSA 7, then this card will be worth approximately $15,000 USD. A PSA 8 is $35,000+

Do you think that a majority of these HE cards get cracked out and resubmitted to PSA?

Do you own a PWCC HE card? Have you left the sticker on it or did you remove it? Will it add any value to the card if you decide to sell it down the line? Will collectors pay more for your card since it has that sticker on it?
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  #2  
Old 10-21-2017, 10:13 AM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
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Brent has found a marketing gimmick that suckers are willing to buy into. He has almost no cost involved at all - simply places a sticker on the card, provides a cert, calls it High End and it brings in more money. People are stupid. Good for him to exploit their stupidity.

Last edited by vintagetoppsguy; 10-21-2017 at 10:14 AM.
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  #3  
Old 10-21-2017, 10:15 AM
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I personally think it's a stupid gimmick -- I can judge as well as Brent and Betsy whether a card is high end for the grade and so can most people -- but no surprise in a gimmick-driven market it seems to work.
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  #4  
Old 10-21-2017, 10:55 AM
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I have bought cards in collections that come with the PWCC HE sticker and in none of those instances have the cards sold for remotely what they brought when PWCC originally sold them. In most of the cases the cards did not even sell for ANY premium over what a similarly graded example sold for. Shockingly these are one and done events. The added value in most cases was not even as much as what it cost PWCC for the sticker and the accompanying insert.
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  #5  
Old 10-21-2017, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botn View Post
I have bought cards in collections that come with the PWCC HE sticker and in none of those instances have the cards sold for remotely what they brought when PWCC originally sold them. In most of the cases the cards did not even sell for ANY premium over what a similarly graded example sold for. Shockingly these are one and done events. The added value in most cases was not even as much as what it cost PWCC for the sticker and the accompanying insert.
Do you offer 2 day shipping?
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  #6  
Old 10-21-2017, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I personally think it's a stupid gimmick -- I can judge as well as Brent and Betsy whether a card is high end for the grade and so can most people -- but no surprise in a gimmick-driven market it seems to work.
spot on
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  #7  
Old 10-21-2017, 11:35 AM
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Sounds like good marketing to me. Their HE cards are usually high end . Just as a lot of us buy cards based on their qualities they are marking ones they think are nice. There are better things to gripe about ...

ps...I had a consignment get turned down for the HE designation .....oh well.
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Last edited by Leon; 10-21-2017 at 11:36 AM.
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  #8  
Old 10-21-2017, 11:39 AM
Brian Van Horn Brian Van Horn is offline
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I can't get beyond PSA 2 and high end.
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  #9  
Old 10-21-2017, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
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I can't get beyond PSA 2 and high end.
Yes...and why is there no 9.5 grade yet???
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  #10  
Old 10-21-2017, 11:56 AM
MikeGarcia MikeGarcia is offline
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Default Can you request??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Sounds like good marketing to me. Their HE cards are usually high end . Just as a lot of us buy cards based on their qualities they are marking ones they think are nice. There are better things to gripe about ...

ps...I had a consignment get turned down for the HE designation .....oh well.
..
..must you request that the submission possibly
be designated " PWCC HE" or do they automatically look at the cards as they scan and list and take it upon themselves to do it ??...that would be a great free service..higher final price for the seller and resulting higher fee to PWCC....a "win-win"

..
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  #11  
Old 10-21-2017, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeGarcia View Post
..
..must you request that the submission possibly
be designated " PWCC HE" or do they automatically look at the cards as they scan and list and take it upon themselves to do it ??...that would be a great free service..higher final price for the seller and resulting higher fee to PWCC....a "win-win"

..
I don't know. I asked if a card would meet their HE designation and they said no, the corners weren't nice enough. It wasn't a big deal....
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  #12  
Old 10-21-2017, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Sounds like good marketing to me. Their HE cards are usually high end . Just as a lot of us buy cards based on their qualities they are marking ones they think are nice. There are better things to gripe about ...
Agreed!
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  #13  
Old 10-21-2017, 12:53 PM
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My niche is the HE AUTH card.
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  #14  
Old 10-21-2017, 12:56 PM
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It's like PSA assigning a condition grade to an autograph. If you are unable to judge the condition of a signature on your own, you probably shouldn't be collecting.
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  #15  
Old 10-21-2017, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeGarcia View Post
..
..must you request that the submission possibly
be designated " PWCC HE" or do they automatically look at the cards as they scan and list and take it upon themselves to do it ??...that would be a great free service..higher final price for the seller and resulting higher fee to PWCC....a "win-win"

..
They automatically review submissions to see if they qualify for the designation. You can make a request or state your opinion that you believe your card should qualify. But they won't make the determination until they have the card in hand.

I've sent in a couple of cards I thought should have been high end. One got it and one didn't.
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  #16  
Old 10-21-2017, 02:13 PM
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I sold my 1965 Topps set through PWCC. I had a Frank Robinson PSA 9 that they designated High End. I didn't ask for the designation, they did it on their own.
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  #17  
Old 10-21-2017, 02:40 PM
ajjohnsonsoxfan ajjohnsonsoxfan is offline
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I also think it's a pretty smart marketing move. If you're a buyer of PWCC cards it gives you an extra layer of grading that can easily be searched on. I recently added a "pwcc-he" ebay search just to see what cards they are designating high end. I think we all like to see cards that look better than their respective technical grades. And if you're a seller with PWCC there's an obvious upside to getting the designation (especially after all the "in-house" bidders go to work). :-)
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  #18  
Old 10-22-2017, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drcy View Post
It's like PSA assigning a condition grade to an autograph. If you are unable to judge the condition of a signature on your own, you probably shouldn't be collecting.
I'm not so sure. It's possible this "independent grading" thing may catch on.

If you are unable to judge the condition of a card on your own, you probably shouldn't be collecting.
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  #19  
Old 10-22-2017, 04:43 AM
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Do they also have a LE (low end) designation? If HE exists then LE obviously exists. Now I'm not saying I expect them to do anything thing that would lower the perceived value of a card they have on consignment but if I were a buyer in their auctions I would only purchase HE designated cards as non-HE cards could be of lesser condition for the grade. Some non-HE cards would logically have to be LE cards.

I actually don't care what they do since I never even look at their auctions. Why would I ever purchase a card for 25-50% more than I can purchase that same quality of card elsewhere.

Last edited by iwantitiwinit; 10-22-2017 at 04:43 AM.
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  #20  
Old 10-22-2017, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn View Post
I can't get beyond PSA 2 and high end.
To me this is an oxymoron......
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  #21  
Old 10-22-2017, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit View Post
Do they also have a LE (low end) designation? If HE exists then LE obviously exists. Now I'm not saying I expect them to do anything thing that would lower the perceived value of a card they have on consignment but if I were a buyer in their auctions I would only purchase HE designated cards as non-HE cards could be of lesser condition for the grade. Some non-HE cards would logically have to be LE cards.

I actually don't care what they do since I never even look at their auctions. Why would I ever purchase a card for 25-50% more than I can purchase that same quality of card elsewhere.
I have an example of a low end card. Poor for the grade:


scan0005.jpg
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  #22  
Old 10-22-2017, 06:24 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
I have an example of a low end card. Poor for the grade:
When you see an ad that says 'low end' card on the listing let me know. I guess a seller can say on a low end card 'candidate for a resubmission raw for a re-grade' because the card will likely get a different grade, though a lower one.
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  #23  
Old 10-22-2017, 06:43 AM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
I have an example of a low end card. Poor for the grade:


Attachment 291925
I think I owned that card. I frequently point out low end examples in my ebay store, but I'm not selling on consignment.


EDIT: Here's a couple:

Frankly grade seems a tad high to me. Crease-free, but more corner wear than I would normally associate with this grade.

All sellers hype their stuff, especially when they think it's undergraded. Don't know many of us who admit when they got a better grade than expected. I fully expected a PSA 6 on this card. Light corner touches and the centering issues really make me wonder how it got the extra half point!

I also call out average cards:

Average card for the grade. Light corner wear heavier in the lower right, and centering issues!
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  #24  
Old 10-22-2017, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Brent has found a marketing gimmick that suckers are willing to buy into. He has almost no cost involved at all - simply places a sticker on the card, provides a cert, calls it High End and it brings in more money. People are stupid. Good for him to exploit their stupidity.
^^This is the real answer^^ I do like the humor in the posts sticking up for PWCC, they make me laugh and wonder if they are paid advertisements.
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
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^^This is the real answer^^ I do like the humor in the posts sticking up for PWCC, they make me laugh and wonder if they are paid advertisements.
It seems to me Members are just giving their honest and personal opinion. You seem to have a problem with that. LOL....Your sometimes contrarian attitude makes me LOL.....

BTW, I don't mind mentioning that PWCC is the largest advertiser on our board and it is appreciated very much. I hope our members support them for supporting the board.
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  #26  
Old 10-22-2017, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit View Post
Do they also have a LE (low end) designation? If HE exists then LE obviously exists. Now I'm not saying I expect them to do anything thing that would lower the perceived value of a card they have on consignment but if I were a buyer in their auctions I would only purchase HE designated cards as non-HE cards could be of lesser condition for the grade. Some non-HE cards would logically have to be LE cards.

I actually don't care what they do since I never even look at their auctions. Why would I ever purchase a card for 25-50% more than I can purchase that same quality of card elsewhere.
When PSA went to half grades some argued that it would devalue the regular grades. That never happened. I think PWCC is using the designation sparingly enough that it doesn't hurt the value of the rest of their cards. That said, I continue to think it's a gimmick and personally I could not care less.
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
When PSA went to half grades some argued that it would devalue the regular grades. That never happened. I think PWCC is using the designation sparingly enough that it doesn't hurt the value of the rest of their cards. That said, I continue to think it's a gimmick and personally I could not care less.
agreed

PWCC gets great stuff. There are also a lot of things to consider when bidding with PWCC that have been discussed over, and over, and over again by the same collectors ..... who probably have "Stay off the Lawn" signs in their front yard
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  #28  
Old 10-22-2017, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
When you see an ad that says 'low end' card on the listing let me know. I guess a seller can say on a low end card 'candidate for a resubmission raw for a re-grade' because the card will likely get a different grade, though a lower one.
I will one day sell this and probably all of my cards. And I will not list it as low end. The buyer can decide whether to buy the card or the holder.
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  #29  
Old 10-22-2017, 05:27 PM
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[QUOTE=Aquarian Sports Cards;1712687]I think I owned that card.



Hey Scott, I bought it raw in a lot from Mastro in 2002. Could it have been your card prior to that?
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  #30  
Old 10-22-2017, 07:18 PM
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Although not a PWCC enthusiast, I don't think their HE is as gimmicky as most of you think. In fact the coin collecting world ( which dwarfs the card collecting world ( at least my using PCGS/NGC numbers vs PSA/SCG) has had a third party
Opinion company (CAC) for 10 years. They apply a green sticker to a " high end for grade" coin or a gold sticker for a coin which would be high end for the grade assigned. They've verified ( stickered) hundreds of thousands of coins worth billions of dollars. I'm an amateur coin and card collector but I don't see many
incredulous post on their coin forums mocking the service... because " my eyes are as good as theirs". It's an accepted service that's really boost the value of coins that get verified as really nice for grade. I'm sure there are those that hate the service though. Us amateurs appreciate the destinction. It is a 3rd party service and they dont benefit from designation a coin as high end- this is in stark contrast to PWCC which certainly profits from the higher prices their HE brings.
For full disclosure I own one PWCc High end card. It is the PSA 6 1953 Topps Mickey Mantle which opens the " Official Mickey Mantle Thread" over in the post war side. If I ever sell it will I disclose it as PWCC HE? Yup

Last edited by Stonepony; 10-22-2017 at 07:22 PM. Reason: Sp
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  #31  
Old 10-22-2017, 07:25 PM
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Probably was designed principally as a way to to suck up to the consignors of high end cards to make them feel special and appreciated. Can’t imagine anyone need to be reminded that a Mantle PSA 7 52 Topps is a high end card.
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  #32  
Old 10-23-2017, 07:09 AM
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Good marketing gimmick IMHO and card does look good for a two... however seems to me like something along the lines of "manufactured rarities" that the card manufacturers use so much... on the other had, why did PSA not grade it a 2.5 or 3? Is PWCC now to be considered on a par with PSA in grading?
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Old 10-23-2017, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
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Good marketing gimmick IMHO and card does look good for a two... however seems to me like something along the lines of "manufactured rarities" that the card manufacturers use so much... on the other had, why did PSA not grade it a 2.5 or 3? Is PWCC now to be considered on a par with PSA in grading?
He is just doing with a seasoned collector can do with his own cards. Most collectors know when a card is high end for the grade, just average for the grade, or low for the grade. When he does that, the cards seem to get an obscene premium that the collectors cant recoup.
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  #34  
Old 10-23-2017, 07:46 AM
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"We at PWCC are not professional graders..."
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  #35  
Old 10-23-2017, 09:52 AM
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I typically purchase laundry detergent with the 'HE' designation. Did PWCC have something to do with this? I have noticed it usually sells for more money.

Brian
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  #36  
Old 10-23-2017, 09:58 AM
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Hmmm...only a 30% increase so I would say that PWCC has nothing to do with the detergent.
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  #37  
Old 10-23-2017, 05:05 PM
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Say what you want, the guy is making a killing....
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  #38  
Old 10-24-2017, 07:49 AM
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Hmmm...only a 30% increase so I would say that PWCC has nothing to do with the detergent.
Well... There might be another DiMaggio rookie card that needs cleaning.
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  #39  
Old 10-24-2017, 09:01 AM
MikeGarcia MikeGarcia is offline
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Default Oh my

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Originally Posted by slipk1068 View Post
Well... There might be another DiMaggio rookie card that needs cleaning.


...ewwwww....I see what you did there...

..
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  #40  
Old 10-24-2017, 09:07 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Originally Posted by CMIZ5290 View Post
Say what you want, the guy is making a killing....
PWCC probably gets at least a total of $250,000.00 of combined bids from Net54 people every auction and at least one bidder from Net54 bids on Off-centered (oc) cards
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  #41  
Old 10-24-2017, 09:45 AM
itslarry itslarry is offline
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I think this is huge in the coin world, and has been for a couple of years. Called cac.

Last edited by itslarry; 10-24-2017 at 09:45 AM.
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  #42  
Old 10-24-2017, 09:59 AM
danmckee danmckee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Brent has found a marketing gimmick that suckers are willing to buy into. He has almost no cost involved at all - simply places a sticker on the card, provides a cert, calls it High End and it brings in more money. People are stupid. Good for him to exploit their stupidity.
Brent didn't create this marketing, A company has been doing this for years with slabbed coins. I agree that it targets more suckers.. Amazing marketing.
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  #43  
Old 10-24-2017, 11:43 AM
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Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
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Maybe Heritage REA and Probstein should do the same thing and we can see whose HE certification is worth more.
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  #44  
Old 10-28-2017, 11:09 AM
Touch'EmAll Touch'EmAll is offline
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Within any grade there are cards that are, 1) average for the grade, cards that are 2) high end for the grade, and cards that are 3) low end for the grade.

How often do you see PWCC list cards that are low end for the grade? Trust me, there are some.
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Last edited by Touch'EmAll; 10-28-2017 at 12:25 PM. Reason: add name
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  #45  
Old 10-28-2017, 11:52 AM
MikeGarcia MikeGarcia is offline
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Default Problem was solved

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Originally Posted by 100backstroke View Post
Within any grade there are cards that are, 1) average for the grade, cards that are 2) high end for the grade, and cards that are 3) low end for the grade.

How often do you see PWCC list cards that are low end for the grade? Trust me, there are some.

..that particular situation should have been solved and rendered moot by the new half-grades (PSA) and new numbering systems (SGC) of recent years.....I have never seen a PSA 6.5 HE or SGC 86 HE that wasn't in a PSA 7 or SGC 88 slab ???

..
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