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  #151  
Old 06-16-2019, 10:34 AM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
LOL of course. But there should be a flood of $1000 lawsuits nevertheless by now. Even as refunds are being paid.
Part of the problem is you always forget to use the sarcasm font and then the wrong people think you agree with them.
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  #152  
Old 06-16-2019, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
Right but knowing the minds of many collectors, it would not be stretch that at least one of them is not happy with the refund being offered. Expensive litigation happens all the time for things that dont cost as much as the litigation as you know..
Where have you seen evidence that partial refunds are being paid out?

If the average card at issue here is worth $5000 there won’t be many lawsuits if any. That’s how PSA has been able to say FU for years to anyone who wants a refund.

What’s going to happen is a law firm will sue them and represent a hundred plaintiffs, large and small, with before and after pics as evidence. And sue them separately for each one. When they see the bad publicity and their inability to make the cases go away they will pay. Or else they’ll get buried.
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  #153  
Old 06-16-2019, 07:08 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
Where have you seen evidence that partial refunds are being paid out?

If the average card at issue here is worth $5000 there won’t be many lawsuits if any. That’s how PSA has been able to say FU for years to anyone who wants a refund.

What’s going to happen is a law firm will sue them and represent a hundred plaintiffs, large and small, with before and after pics as evidence. And sue them separately for each one. When they see the bad publicity and their inability to make the cases go away they will pay. Or else they’ll get buried.

zero evidence, just human nature that hard for me to believe everyone asking for damages will be satisfied .
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  #154  
Old 06-16-2019, 11:38 PM
tmw2ward tmw2ward is offline
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Do we have an idea of the total number of cards that may be altered?
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  #155  
Old 06-19-2019, 05:53 AM
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This sub includes the Old Mill Cobb that BO has identified as originally having been purchased by PWCC itself in an SGC 30 holder.

22834524 T206 Polar Bear O'Hara PSA 2 PWCC 7/7/2014
22834525 T206 Polar Bear O'Hara PSA 4 PWCC 10/5/2014
22834526 T206 Piedmont Cobb Green Background PSA 2.5 PWCC 7/7/2014
22834527 T206 Piedmont Cobb Green Background PSA 3 PWCC 6/3/2014 Looks More Like a Yellow Background
22834528 T206 Old Mill Cobb Red Background PSA 4.5 PWCC 7/7/2014
22834529 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
22834530 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
22834531 T206 Sweet Caporal Cobb Red Background PSA 6 PWCC 11/2/2014
22834532 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
22834533 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
22834534 1933 Goudey #92 Gehrig PSA 3 PWCC 6/4/2014
22834535 1933 Goudey #154 Foxx PSA 4 PWCC 6/4/2014
22834536 1933 Goudey #160 Gehrig PSA 4.5 PWCC 6/4/2014
22834537 1933 Goudey #216 Gomez PSA 5.5 PWCC 6/4/2014
22834538 1933 Goudey #220 Grove PSA 5 PWCC 6/4/2014
22834539 1933 Goudey #223 Dean PSA 5 PWCC 6/4/2014
22834540 1940 Playball #1 DiMaggio PSA 4 NO RECORD OF SALE
22834541 1949 Bowman #50 Robinson PSA 8 PWCC 6/5/2014
22834542 Altered, Min Size or Miscut NO RECORD OF SALE
22834543 1952 Topps #1 Pafko BLACK PSA 5 NO RECORD OF SALE
22834544 1954 Topps #128 Aaron PSA 6 PWCC 11/3/2014
22834545 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
22834546 1954 Topps #128 Aaron PSA 7 PWCC 6/5/2014
22834547 1956 Topps #135 Mantle GRAY PSA 7 NO RECORD OF SALE

Many more subs containing outed cards are in the works I hear.
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  #156  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:13 PM
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Default too much info ....

I have been reading this for about an hour and still not really sure whats going on. Anyone want to give me a readers digest version....
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  #157  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:18 PM
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Watch this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=9TpKs7DKsto

Last edited by ullmandds; 06-19-2019 at 01:18 PM.
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  #158  
Old 06-19-2019, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmw2ward View Post
Do we have an idea of the total number of cards that may be altered?
Do you mean (1) the number of cards specifically outed, (2) the number of cards in the same submissions as the outed cards, or (3) how many altered cards are out there in the world?
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  #159  
Old 06-20-2019, 05:37 AM
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SGC 4.5 Green Cobb
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3178
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  #160  
Old 06-20-2019, 10:45 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
some of these cards would have gone up on their own..

an issue is if you make a corner rounder that was sharp....is that really altering.

if you bounce the card a few times like in a game on the corner like a kid may of done or put in your spokes..thats not altering a card.....plus that would lower the value ..i guess thats normal wear and tear is not altering.....

on this cobb it is alleged the corners were made worse....by rounding them...also there is some altering alleged to improve the card of course..but the rounding part is whats interesting to me.

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 06-20-2019 at 10:49 AM.
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  #161  
Old 06-20-2019, 10:47 AM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
some of these cards would have gone up on their own..

an issue is if you make a corner rounder that was sharp....is that really altering.

if you bounce the card a few times like in a game on the corner like a kid may of done or put in your spokes..thats not altering a card.....plus that would lower the value ..i guess thats normal wear and tear is not altering.....

on this cobb it is alleged the corners were made worse....by rounding them..
It’s altered badly

Last edited by Johnny630; 06-20-2019 at 10:48 AM.
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  #162  
Old 06-20-2019, 10:51 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnny630 View Post
It’s altered badly
yes i added to my comment....but the rounding part is interesting

so how much is PSA supposed to pay back on this one? No lawsuits filed so everyone must be being paid back to their satisfaction

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 06-20-2019 at 10:52 AM.
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  #163  
Old 06-20-2019, 01:27 PM
tmw2ward tmw2ward is offline
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Peter, what I'm asking is, is there a comprehensive list of Whittman/PWCC cards. I have already found two I purchased on the list and wanted to check all the PWCC cards I have. Thanks.
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  #164  
Old 06-20-2019, 01:30 PM
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Peter, what I'm asking is, is there a comprehensive list of Whittman/PWCC cards. I have already found two I purchased on the list and wanted to check all the PWCC cards I have. Thanks.
The thread I linked to is the subs done so far. MANY more subs are coming.

Here is the list to date.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...48&postcount=1
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-20-2019 at 01:33 PM.
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  #165  
Old 06-20-2019, 01:40 PM
tmw2ward tmw2ward is offline
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Thanks Peter!
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  #166  
Old 06-20-2019, 01:41 PM
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Thanks Peter!
Stay tuned. It's going to be ugly.
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  #167  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
yes i added to my comment....but the rounding part is interesting

so how much is PSA supposed to pay back on this one? No lawsuits filed so everyone must be being paid back to their satisfaction
This is an SGC card, for starters.
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  #168  
Old 06-20-2019, 07:36 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
This is an SGC card, for starters.
so SGC doesnt pay anything back? I think you know what i mean.

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 06-20-2019 at 07:37 PM.
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  #169  
Old 06-20-2019, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
so SGC doesnt pay anything back? I think you know what i mean.
Someone has to make a claim, Jake. It got outed yesterday. I really don't know what you're driving at here. I hope you do.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-20-2019 at 08:27 PM.
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  #170  
Old 06-20-2019, 09:26 PM
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So does anyone have any idea of where the cards that are rejected by the TPGs are winding up?

Are they just being resubmitted over and over until they finally get a numeric grade?

Are they being sold/auctioned raw through some other dealer?

Maybe someone is using them as coasters for their drinks?

They are somewhere though; they have not disappeared.
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  #171  
Old 06-20-2019, 09:31 PM
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So does anyone have any idea of where the cards that are rejected by the TPGs are winding up?

Are they just being resubmitted over and over until they finally get a numeric grade?

Are they being sold/auctioned raw through some other dealer?

Maybe someone is using them as coasters for their drinks?

They are somewhere though; they have not disappeared.
Some of 1 and some of 2 I suspect.
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  #172  
Old 06-20-2019, 09:46 PM
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Seems like, for vintage, he's submitting to PSA first, having a high success rate, and then may try back at PSA again before submitting to SGC. If the first touch-up didn't work, maybe a second will? Some of the cards were purchased two years prior to coming back up for sale. This may be due to the ones that were initially deemed altered being retried multiple times.

Some of the sets really only have value in PSA slabs because of the registry.
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  #173  
Old 06-21-2019, 09:05 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Someone has to make a claim, Jake. It got outed yesterday. I really don't know what you're driving at here. I hope you do.
Lots of talk, no lawsuits. If no lawsuits, that says might not be such a problem.

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 06-21-2019 at 09:06 AM.
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  #174  
Old 06-21-2019, 09:18 AM
steve B steve B is offline
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Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
Lots of talk, no lawsuits. If no lawsuits, that says might not be such a problem.
Or... keep your scams to small dollar amounts and refund readily when found out... No lawsuit no problem?
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  #175  
Old 06-21-2019, 09:31 AM
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Lots of talk, no lawsuits. If no lawsuits, that says might not be such a problem.
Sure Jake whatever you say.
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  #176  
Old 06-21-2019, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
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Or... keep your scams to small dollar amounts and refund readily when found out... No lawsuit no problem?
I don't follow this at all. There are some very expensive altered cards in holders, starting with 00000001.
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  #177  
Old 06-21-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
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I don't follow this at all. There are some very expensive altered cards in holders, starting with 00000001.
It was mostly a response to the idea that if there aren't lawsuits there's no problem.
Not many will sue over $10, especially if they say "oh I have a problem" and they get their $10 back right away.

Now the other bike shop in town where the owners relative confronted by a soon to be bride with some pretty gnarly facial scrapes from the handlebars coming loose who replied to this news with "well what do you expect me to do about it? " …
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  #178  
Old 06-21-2019, 08:01 PM
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As Jimi Hendrix sang, if 6 was 9, I don't mind. 53 Parkhurst.



https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3201
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  #179  
Old 06-21-2019, 09:58 PM
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No lawsuits in the last two hours. Onto the next hobby disaster, this one’s cleaned up.
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  #180  
Old 06-21-2019, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
No lawsuits in the last two hours. Onto the next hobby disaster, this one’s cleaned up.
Jake will be pleased.
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  #181  
Old 06-22-2019, 09:50 AM
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LOL how dare they give it the same grade after such a nice trim job. Read the description.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3232
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-22-2019 at 09:50 AM.
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  #182  
Old 06-22-2019, 10:05 AM
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Possibly a world record for most trimmed off a card.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3233

And not far behind.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3236
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-22-2019 at 10:20 AM.
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  #183  
Old 06-22-2019, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Possibly a world record for most trimmed off a card.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3233
Always complaining, always negative. The diamond cut is gone! Isn’t that a good thing?
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  #184  
Old 06-22-2019, 10:33 AM
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Always complaining, always negative. The diamond cut is gone! Isn’t that a good thing?
Yes, and that's a good thing for the hobby!! And in any event, it was just a bump.
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  #185  
Old 06-22-2019, 10:37 AM
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https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3237

Best one today.
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  #186  
Old 06-22-2019, 10:45 AM
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And the PSA Kool Aid Drinkers Continue To Buy.
How ugly is this year’s National Gonna Be At two booths ?

Last edited by Johnny630; 06-22-2019 at 11:14 AM.
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  #187  
Old 06-22-2019, 11:14 AM
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Are we to believe the PSA graders stink this bad at their job ? This stink so bad of other stuff going on.....Ov Vey
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  #188  
Old 06-22-2019, 02:17 PM
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Default T206 Cobb Red SGC 3 to 6.5

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3244
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  #189  
Old 06-22-2019, 02:59 PM
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swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
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Have we made a list of all the different types of alterations found so far by Moser?
1) Trimming
2) Bleaching
3) Rebuilding corners
4) Filling pinholes
5) Repairing tears
6) Pressing out creases
7) Recoloring to cover up paper loss or minimize appearance of fisheyes/snow
8) Removing caramel/wax/gum stains
9) Shill bidding and winning his own auctions
10) Faking rough cuts

Things Moser has confessed to: just bumping cards on the basis of their own merits.

If only he would use his powers for good...
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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #190  
Old 06-22-2019, 05:35 PM
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Peter Spaeth
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Leaf Mini.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3254
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  #191  
Old 06-23-2019, 06:21 PM
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Mercy. Another Leaf Mini.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=136
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
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He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
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  #192  
Old 06-23-2019, 06:55 PM
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LOL
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3388
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
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He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
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  #193  
Old 06-23-2019, 07:02 PM
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Yowch. These just don't stop.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3390
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
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  #194  
Old 06-23-2019, 07:03 PM
ejharrington ejharrington is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
How in the hell can that much of a trim pass review? On some of these altered cards, I have sympathy for the TPGs as it is virtually impossible to tell the alterations without having the benefit of the before and after comparison, which they don't have when grading. But these ones with the major trims, I just scratch my head...
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Contact me if you have any Dave Kingman cards / memorabilia for sale.
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  #195  
Old 06-23-2019, 07:08 PM
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Default To paraphrase the Dylan song

Something is happening here but you don't know what it is
Do ya, Mr. Sloan?
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
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He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
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  #196  
Old 06-23-2019, 07:20 PM
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https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3391
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
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  #197  
Old 06-23-2019, 07:22 PM
HawkFan70 HawkFan70 is offline
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Are there any regular sized Leaf cards left?
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  #198  
Old 06-23-2019, 07:23 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
No lawsuits in the last two hours. Onto the next hobby disaster, this one’s cleaned up.
Appears so...still no lawsuits.....guess will keep posting all of this injustice but no lawsuits.
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  #199  
Old 06-23-2019, 07:27 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
Or... keep your scams to small dollar amounts and refund readily when found out... No lawsuit no problem?
correct..if there are no lawsuits its not enough of a problem...usually even when there are no criminal charges there are at least civil lawsuits...if you dont see any civil lawsuits then you can forget criminal charges etc..

its a problem even if no lawsuits but i would worry about problems where there are actual lawsuits and criminal charges more than on problems where there aren't

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 06-23-2019 at 07:27 PM.
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  #200  
Old 06-23-2019, 07:28 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkFan70 View Post
Are there any regular sized Leaf cards left?
I have a bunch of them with fat borders...i wonder how much the population went down actually...
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