So what's safe to buy?

[36GoudeyMan]

Admittedly naive, but my question now comes down to this: given what we know, and about whom, what is still "safe" to buy (among pre-WW2 cards; never ever wanted shiny new stuff anyway)?

[Johnny630]

Cash is king always will be....wait for reality to set in with Lower prices...much lower...if it doesn’t happens sit back and enjoy all the cash you have 😎

[sportscardpete]

Why would all cards move lower? I disagree - I think some high end and shiny cards will suffer but some low grade will be fine.

[Promethius88]

If you collect as a hobby and for the enjoyment of collecting, buy whatever you want. Let's take a step back for just a moment. Acccording to Merriam-Webster, these are the definitions of "hobby" and "collecting"...

Definition of hobby -
: a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation

Definition of collecting -
: to gather an accumulation of (objects) especially as a hobby

If these are the reasons you are into cards, the money shouldn't matter. If you are investing, then it's a different story and the two terms don't really apply. Truth is, we are all going to be dead one day and none of it will matter.
If you fish or hunt as a hobby(just an example) you may spend thousands of dollars on gear, trips, etc. What do you have in the end??? Memories.
If you spending 10 hours a day reading posts about the current situation, losing sleep, stressing in general, then maybe this really isn't a hobby.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I would say it's more a matter of; Whom is it safe to buy from?

[Bram99]

Originally Posted by 36GoudeyMan

Admittedly naive, but my question now comes down to this: given what we know, and about whom, what is still "safe" to buy (among pre-WW2 cards; never ever wanted shiny new stuff anyway)?

I find it very safe to bring two fives to the bank and buy a ten, or four fives and buy a twenty. That’s about it.

[Mark17]

Obviously, the lower the grade on a common card, the safer it is. I am partial to T205 for their color, highly identifiable and lifelike portraits and usually good registration, and T202 because I like that action photograph, plus you also get, basically, a T205 on each end. I also like the detailed, interesting biographies on the backs of these two issues.

Commons in nice shape can be found in the $20 to $50 range, so little risk.

[LincolnVT]

Rare, low pop Ruth, Cobb, Wagner and Jackson.

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

Rare, low pop Ruth, Cobb, Wagner and Jackson.

And if you're not swimming in cash, you're better off with oddball releases that don't command huge $$$. T206, 33 Goudeys, 52 Topps, and other big named HOFers are all big targets. Nothing is 100% safe, but you're better off with less popular issues. Shiny stuff seems to be open season. Holy hell, there are a lot of bad Mike Trouts out there.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by 36GoudeyMan

Admittedly naive, but my question now comes down to this: given what we know, and about whom, what is still "safe" to buy (among pre-WW2 cards; never ever wanted shiny new stuff anyway)?

Nothing, unfortunately, is completely safe it appears. IMO, it is open season and buyer beware. If there is a seller you trust implicitly, maybe. Otherwise I'm in a wait and see mode, which well and truly sucks.

[Brian Van Horn]

That is one scary question.

[Leon]

IN the vintage arena I guess you have to really be careful. I am worried about hatchet jobs more than anything. It's probably a little safer to collect over sized cards...though, obviously they can be trimmed too.

[T_Hamilton]

Originally Posted by Leon

IN the vintage arena I guess you have to really be careful. I am worried about hatchet jobs more than anything. It's probably a little safer to collect over sized cards...though, obviously they can be trimmed too.

I have put money on the sidelines for vintage. However bought a few packs of Topps series 2. Was nice to thumb through the cards slowly, look at the stats and read the bio... just like being a kid again.

[Bicem]

How about original photos where trimming/condition doesn't matter much?

[nat]

I thought about just quoting #4, but here's another way to make the same point.

It is safe to buy:

- Cards that you are never going to sell (provided that you don't care if you might have trimmed cards in your PC)

- Cards that are worth a sufficiently small amount of money (relative to your total budget) that if you take a bath once it's discovered that they're trimmed, you don't really care about the money that you would lose selling them

If, one way or another, you see card collecting as simple consumption - like going to the movies or eating at a restaurant - then the current scandal isn't going to bother you much.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Nothing, unfortunately, is completely safe it appears. IMO, it is open season and buyer beware. If there is a seller you trust implicitly, maybe. Otherwise I'm in a wait and see mode, which well and truly sucks.

And I would bet my last card the people responsible for this state of stress haven't given one minute of thought to the psychic or economic damage they have caused.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Bicem

How about original photos where trimming/condition doesn't matter much?

Or memorabilia in general, for that matter. Still the risk of tampering, but on a lesser scale and with lesser consequences. But I think the question was meant to apply to cards, not sure there's much crossover between card and memorabilia collecting.

[SMPEP]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I would say it's more a matter of; Whom is it safe to buy from?

Aquarian Sports Cards, duh.

[pokerplyr80]

There's risk in every transaction. Look at the mess another member got into making a legitimate Ebay sale and dealing with PayPal. You can let it ruin the hobby for you, keep you on the sidelines for a while and see what happens, or just accept it and try to minimize the risk as best as you can. I will be going with the last option I mentioned.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by SMPEP

Aquarian Sports Cards, duh.

Well I'd like to think so, but all my posts aren'y intended to be self-serving lol.

Without going into details I didn't just sit back and hope for the best for the hobby with regards to the current problems, and there would be no direct benefit to myself.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

There's risk in every transaction. Look at the mess another member got into making a legitimate Ebay sale and dealing with PayPal. You can let it ruin the hobby for you, keep you on the sidelines for a while and see what happens, or just accept it and try to minimize the risk as best as you can. I will be going with the last option I mentioned.

For me this just confirms what I've known all along and I've had a methodology for trying to minimize the risk of altered cards for a long time. I'm waiting for a bit to see more certs exposed so I know whether I have to adjust my methodology at all, and I've completely punted one seller from consideration, but I think in the end it will continue to be proceed with caution rather than give up.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For me this just confirms what I've known all along and I've had a methodology for trying to minimize the risk of altered cards for a long time. I'm waiting for a bit to see more certs exposed so I know whether I have to adjust my methodology at all, and I've completely punted one seller from consideration, but I think in the end it will continue to be proceed with caution rather than give up.

I have tried to be cautious as well. At this point, I'm going pretty slow. It is fair to say that I still want new and better vintage cards. But at this point, if I'm sure of anything, I'm sure they won't be from PWCC, nor will I give much credence to anything that PSA, Beckett, or even SGC has to say. If I have the least doubt, I'm not going there right now.

I watched another one of my white whales get sold last night and I wasn't even tempted to bid. Didn't trust it. A year ago, I would have been all over it. Would have bid more. So it goes.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Or memorabilia in general, for that matter. Still the risk of tampering, but on a lesser scale and with lesser consequences. But I think the question was meant to apply to cards, not sure there's much crossover between card and memorabilia collecting.

Agreed but it's surprising. You would think anyone who enjoys baseball history, rarity, beautiful imagery, etc would gravitate to cards and memorabilia. I personally enjoy memorabilia more (photos & postcards) these days than ever, seem much more interesting than cards and condition isn't such a driving value factor.

[MVSNYC]

Hank, Jeff +1

I've always counterbalanced my collection of cards (mostly focused on T206 rare backs) with memorabilia- Game Used Bats, ticket stubs, programs, vintage photos, etc.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For me this just confirms what I've known all along and I've had a methodology for trying to minimize the risk of altered cards for a long time. I'm waiting for a bit to see more certs exposed so I know whether I have to adjust my methodology at all, and I've completely punted one seller from consideration, but I think in the end it will continue to be proceed with caution rather than give up.

Yea that's really all we can do if we want to continue in this hobby which should bring enjoyment, not stress and aggravation. I get enough of that in real life.

I've always wanted a signed Ruth or Ruth/gehrig ball, but I've heard for years how many fakes are out there. There won't be any before and after shots to expose the fakes for those. But when the time is right I will try to educate myself and hope some of the autograph experts here will be willing to assist.

[IMAXMAX]

Zeenuts!

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Yea that's really all we can do if we want to continue in this hobby which should bring enjoyment, not stress and aggravation. I get enough of that in real life.

I've always wanted a signed Ruth or Ruth/gehrig ball, but I've heard for years how many fakes are out there. There won't be any before and after shots to expose the fakes for those. But when the time is right I will try to educate myself and hope some of the autograph experts here will be willing to assist.

Consider a period Yankees team-signed ball. It’s a very safe bet if you know what to look for. The secretarial versions of Ruth and Gehrig are quite easy to identify, and stand out like sore thumbs. They can be easily avoided.

Single-signed balls present much more problems, if you have authenticity concerns.

[Bpm0014]

So what's safe to buy?

Type I photos

[bbcard1]

I think it's all fine. Just like always you need to be careful.

[BeanTown]

Postcards!!!! No need to trim and not as conditioned sensitive as most other issues. Not too mention, many collectors like the writing on the back with the stamp still on it. Nothing like having a USPS validation as to the mailing year.

Tyoe 1 photos and Postcards would be my vote

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Consider a period Yankees team-signed ball. It’s a very safe bet if you know what to look for. The secretarial versions of Ruth and Gehrig are quite easy to identify, and stand out like sore thumbs. They can be easily avoided.

Single-signed balls present much more problems, if you have authenticity concerns.

I would have authenticity concerns with any ball purchased but will attempt to learn how to spots the obvious fakes or secretarial signatures at least. I would prefer a single or dual signed ball for aesthetic reasons but am not opposed to a nice team signed ball as long as Ruth and Gehrig would be legible and not too crowded by others.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For me this just confirms what I've known all along and I've had a methodology for trying to minimize the risk of altered cards for a long time. I'm waiting for a bit to see more certs exposed so I know whether I have to adjust my methodology at all, and I've completely punted one seller from consideration, but I think in the end it will continue to be proceed with caution rather than give up.

Greta Garbo and Winston Churchill cards.

[calvindog]

I'm staying away from high grade PSA cards which I pretty much always have. Collecting rare cards that are not rare due to condition solely is probably a better way to go.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Leon

IN the vintage arena I guess you have to really be careful. I am worried about hatchet jobs more than anything. It's probably a little safer to collect over sized cards...though, obviously they can be trimmed too.

Pardom me for not reading all the marathon scam threads, but is SGC clear of all that?

.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Pardom me for not reading all the marathon scam threads, but is SGC clear of all that?

.

None of the grading companies are in the clear.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Cash is king always will be....wait for reality to set in with Lower prices...much lower...if it doesn’t happens sit back and enjoy all the cash you have 😎

I agree. Why give anyone ESPECIALLY PSA another nickel? They are supposed to have protected you from buying trimmed cards. They not only did not do what you paid them to do, their biggest dealer is sending in trimmed cards for high grades for over 15 years. That is just a rotten company...BOTH of them

Jim Stinson said it best.... If you piss in a glass of water, you have a glass of piss. PSA is Piss water

[bxb]

Are the older holders safer? What is the oldest holder so far that has a documented altered card? Or has this sh-t been going on for many years?

A recent major AH catalog has lots of PSA 10s and 9s in new holders.

Now I am hesitant to bid.

[Johnny630]

“A Fool And His Money are Soon Parted”

When I attend the National this year the lines at PSA and SGC will tell
me whether this is a lost cause or progress has been made....
I’m afraid the masses will still flock for their Newport Beach Slabs....if I see
Crazy lines there all week the beat will confine, nothing will change, no accountability, no real solution...same garbage. This will most likely be my Last national. Wish I didn’t already have the reservations, I don’t even feel like going to this crap show now.

[BengoughingForAwhile]

Originally Posted by 36GoudeyMan

Admittedly naive, but my question now comes down to this: given what we know, and about whom, what is still "safe" to buy (among pre-WW2 cards; never ever wanted shiny new stuff anyway)?

Cards with hole punches.

[Joshwesley]

I’ve never been a high condition buyer...and have always been skeptical of any piece of cardboard over 100 years old that looks too good...

Luckily my wallet made that decision for me 🤣

Seriously though, I would rather have a 1 or 2 of something that only a few other people have rather than a 9 or 10 of a card that is readily available to the masses. If that makes sense?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Joshwesley

I’ve never been a high condition buyer...and have always been skeptical of any piece of cardboard over 100 years old that looks too good...

Luckily my wallet made that decision for me 🤣

Seriously though, I would rather have a 1 or 2 of something that only a few other people have rather than a 9 or 10 of a card that is readily available to the masses. If that makes sense?

I agree 100%.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

“A Fool And His Money are Soon Parted”

When I attend the National this year the lines at PSA and SGC will tell
me whether this is a lost cause or progress has been made....
I’m afraid the masses will still flock for their Newport Beach Slabs....if I see
Crazy lines there all week the beat will confine, nothing will change, no accountability, no real solution...same garbage. This will most likely be my Last national. Wish I didn’t already have the reservations, I don’t even feel like going to this crap show now.

Those slabs come from Santa Ana. Newport Beach would be a very expensive place to set up shop.

[Directly]

During this years National will PSA be able to

check a few cards in existing PSA holders for

trimmed or bleached cards?

Also if determined the card isn't as described

will they want to slab the card as authentic v/s a grade.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Joshwesley

I’ve never been a high condition buyer...and have always been skeptical of any piece of cardboard over 100 years old that looks too good...

Luckily my wallet made that decision for me 🤣

Seriously though, I would rather have a 1 or 2 of something that only a few other people have rather than a 9 or 10 of a card that is readily available to the masses. If that makes sense?

There's nothing errant with collecting the cards, but I've found it telling with cards so plentiful that they only have value when graded a 10. Always seemed a convoluted way to give cards a value.

[Joshwesley]

Like with most commodities, supply and demand ....

I just think in the long run you are better off with a cy young, ty cobb or babe Ruth that has an overall small population report, rather than a robin yount rookie in gem mint 10 that might only have a handful of 10’s but tens of thousands total in circulation.

That’s just what my head tells me and it’s just my opinion.

[icurnmedic]

I personally like to but vintage that are deemed "Authentic" . Usually get some really nice cards, that otherwise look Ex+ for a fraction of the costs.