Borderline Hall of Famer? Can I see your Miller Huggins cards?

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Posted By: Dave

These are the three I've owned. Top one is raw and currently still owned...thanks to Steve M for it. The other two went to board members...

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Posted By: Denny

Dave,
Not to HiJack your thread... But, I am very Curious bout da "Borderline Hall of Famer?" part?
Are you implying that Mr. Huggins is on your HOF bubble? If So,,,,

From the Hof'er site:

Induction Information
Elected to Hall of Fame by Veterans Committee in 1964, Manager

Post-Season: 1921 World Series, 1922 World Series, 1923 World Series, 1926 World Series, 1927 World Series, 1928 World Series

Bio
During a 13-year big league career as a second baseman, Miller Huggins developed the leadership qualities that helped him become one of the game's top managers. The 5-foot, 6-inch Huggins, known as "The Mighty Mite," started out as a player-manager with the Cardinals before heading to the Yankees in 1918. He led New York to six pennants and three World Series titles, and his 1927 "Murderers' Row" club, which won 110 games before sweeping the World Series, is considered one of baseball's greatest teams.

He Won SIX Pennants and 3 World Series as a Manager Bro

Does this mean that Joe Torre or even Tony La Russa will be on the Bubble also? Just wondering bout your thoughts?

Life's Grand,
Denny Walsh

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Posted By: Darren

Huggins is in my top row of HOF managers.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

His managerial stats would have been even better had Ruth and Co.'s antics not led to his untimely demise.

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Posted By: Dave

I realize Huggins had a few years of success as a manager. Yes, he won a few pennants and three World Series as a manager (taken your word on the amount). However, there were fewer teams back then...so winning a World Series may have been slightly easier than today. He also didn't have but about 1,400 or so career wins as a manager...far less than Tony LaRussa, Bobby Cox, or even Joe Torre by about 500 or so. He was a marginal ballplayer in his days... .260 hitter or something in that ballpark? I know he's in for his managerial performance...but I don't see where he was one of the greats of all time. Most of his success managing came in the last five years or so of his career...With that NY team he had, do you think another manager would have had the team somehow losing games??

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Posted By: peter chao

Guys,

Mr. Huggins had it easy managing the Yankees. Can you imagine the pressure-cooker Joe Torre is under. However, Mr. Torre should be in the Hall just because he was one of the great all-time catchers.

Tony redeemed himself by winning the last World Series and will go in sooner or later.

Peter

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Posted By: Dave

Of course it's just an opinion. But I think Huggins is seen my a majority of the collecting world as borderline. Why else would his card values be more in line with Bresnahan, Wallace, and Griffith instead of even a McGraw? McGraw by the way was head and shoulders a better manager IMO.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I've pasted Miller's managerial record below. As a player he wasn't real flashy. As a manager he inherited Babe Ruth in 1920. Look at the record before 1920 and after 1920. He had one subpar season with the Yanks - 1925. Look what happened to Babe Ruth that year. From 1919 - 1933 it was Babes worst season. In 1925 Babe set lows for HRs, RBIs and BA for the years 1919 - 1933.

Huggins had some great teams to manage. Do I think he's a borderline HOF? I don't know. He was in the thick of it during the 20's! It's kind of like being Joe Torre today. Look at all the talent he gets to manage, kinda like Joe Torre (who should be enshrined because of his overall career as a player and manager, after he finally retires).

 Year    League   Team     Age  G     W    L    WP   Finish
+----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
 1913 National Lg St.Louis  35   153   51   99   .340      8  Player/Manager
 1914 National Lg St.Louis  36   157   81   72   .529      3  Player/Manager
 1915 National Lg St.Louis  37   157   72   81   .471      6  Player/Manager
 1916 National Lg St.Louis  38   153   60   93   .392      7  Player/Manager
 1917 National Lg St.Louis  39   154   82   70   .539      3

 1918 American Lg NewYorkY  40   126   60   63   .488      4
 1919 American Lg NewYorkY  41   141   80   59   .576      3
 1920 American Lg NewYorkY  42   154   95   59   .617      3
 1921 American Lg NewYorkY  43   153   98   55   .641  AL  1
 1922 American Lg NewYorkY  44   154   94   60   .610  AL  1
 1923 American Lg NewYorkY  45   152   98   54   .645  WS  1
 1924 American Lg NewYorkY  46   153   89   63   .586      2
 1925 American Lg NewYorkY  47   156   69   85   .448      7
 1926 American Lg NewYorkY  48   155   91   63   .591  AL  1
 1927 American Lg NewYorkY  49   155  110   44   .714  WS  1
 1928 American Lg NewYorkY  50   154  101   53   .656  WS  1
 1929 American Lg NewYorkY  51   143   82   61   .573      2
+----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
                  NewYorkY      1796 1067  719   .597
                  St.Louis       774  346  415   .455
+----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
      TOTAL                     2570 1413 1134   .555

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Wow, that font got pretty small in that last post... lets see if this works better...



Year League Team Age G W L WP Finish
+----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
1913 National Lg St.Louis 35 153 51 99 .340 8 Player/Manager
1914 National Lg St.Louis 36 157 81 72 .529 3 Player/Manager
1915 National Lg St.Louis 37 157 72 81 .471 6 Player/Manager
1916 National Lg St.Louis 38 153 60 93 .392 7 Player/Manager
1917 National Lg St.Louis 39 154 82 70 .539 3

1918 American Lg NewYorkY 40 126 60 63 .488 4
1919 American Lg NewYorkY 41 141 80 59 .576 3
1920 American Lg NewYorkY 42 154 95 59 .617 3
1921 American Lg NewYorkY 43 153 98 55 .641 AL 1
1922 American Lg NewYorkY 44 154 94 60 .610 AL 1
1923 American Lg NewYorkY 45 152 98 54 .645 WS 1
1924 American Lg NewYorkY 46 153 89 63 .586 2
1925 American Lg NewYorkY 47 156 69 85 .448 7
1926 American Lg NewYorkY 48 155 91 63 .591 AL 1
1927 American Lg NewYorkY 49 155 110 44 .714 WS 1
1928 American Lg NewYorkY 50 154 101 53 .656 WS 1
1929 American Lg NewYorkY 51 143 82 61 .573 2
+----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
NewYorkY 1796 1067 719 .597
St.Louis 774 346 415 .455
+----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
TOTAL 2570 1413 1134 .555

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Posted By: Dave

From his days with the Yanks. Kinda beat up... but still a tough one to find.

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Posted By: Lyman

Huggins is the only named player in the 1907 PC778 Morgan Stationery "Red Belt" postcard set and he has two cards with the same pose (one with a stadium background and one with drawing background).

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

It's just incredible how Miller posed the exact same way for both post cards!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I guarantee you that none of the other managers listed here ever had to fear for his life from his drunken superstar.

Also, as I mentioned above, Huggins died young, at age 51, which greatly affected his managerial stats. By the time he was Joe Torre's age Huggins had been dead for 16 years.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

So, his playing Stats. are mediocre

With Ruth, Gehrig, Combs, Dugan, Koenig, Lazzeri, Meusel, et al....let's fault him
for not winning every year from 1920-1928.

OK, I know why he's in the HOF, it's because he was a lawyer.....not too many
know he went to Law School.

Come on guys, the man deserves to be in the HOF.

And, hopefully in a couple weeks we'll find out another Mgr. and a great player,
with 7 consecutive years with 100+ RBI's, etc, etc., will be selected to the HOF....
Gil Hodges.

TED Z

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Posted By: Phil Garry

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Let's not forget that it was Miller Huggins, who persuaded Col. Jacob Ruppert and Col. Til Houston
to acquire Babe Ruth from Boston. They wanted Ty Cobb. But, Huggins, who was a great judge of
talent, told them "Cobb was too old, and Ruth was the player that would make the Yankees a win-
ning team".

For this single stroke of genius....Huggins deserves to be in the Hall of Fame....nevertheless, all the
other reasons for his HOF status.

Ted Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

My read on Huggins is that, more so than Ruth, it was Col. Til Houston that "stressed him out".
Houston never agreed with Col. Jacob Ruppert's choice of Huggins to be Manager. Col. Houston
wanted the popular Brooklyn Mgr.....Wilbert Robinson.

Perhaps it was his lawyer background, or what, but Huggins was somewhat impervious to Ruth's
antics (or other party animals on the Yankees)....as, Huggins never held a grudge. Much of the
so-called tension between Huggins and Ruth was "NY media hype".

To illustrate what I'm saying regarding Houston's dislike for Huggins, when Houston left the team
in 1922, Huggins said, as he was greatly relieved...."it was the longest five years of my life".

And, in the Fall of 1929 when Huggins was seriously ill, it was Babe Ruth, who publicly asked the
country to pray for Miller's recovery.

TED Z

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Hug died prematurely.

Also, it is not fair to claim that Huggins "inherited" a great teamn. Every manager, with rare exceptions, "inherits" his team. The general manager has the bigger role in deciding who is going to be on the team, and before free agency, the quality of the farm and scouting network had even more to do with it by defining the talent pool for the team. Casey Stengel "inherited" a great team that George Weiss put together; Ralph Houk inherited it from Casey. Gil Hodges "inherited" a team nucleus with the Mets. The Brooklyn Dodgers managers were the beneficiaries of MacPhail's and Rickey's efforts assembling the Dodgers. Ed Barrow assembled the great teams that Joe McCarthy had with the Yankees and the Yankees and Cards had the finest farm systems in the majors, which is why McCarthy couldn't win when he went to the Red Sox; not the same front office and development talent.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

From 1918 to 1929....Miller Huggins was a dynamic part of some of BaseBall's greatest history.
And, for the "nay-sayers" who don't think he belongs in the HOF, then I say......do some book
reading, on the decade of the 1920's and especially the New York Yankees.

ADAM W

As you know, Miller Huggins was a little guy who barely weighed 140 lbs. At age 50, he became
very ill with a blood disease of which his frail body could not recover from. And, you are correct
(in one of your prior posts here), had he lived a longer life, his Managerial record would've prob-
ably been the best, ever. As it was.....it was still tremendous. And, sure many would say "well,
he had the horses"; but, Huggins had a lot to do with that.....starting with his strong advice to
Ruppert and Houston to acquire Babe Ruth in 1919. And in 1920, Huggins instantly realized the
benefits of having Ruth playing everyday, rather than being a pitcher.

TED Z