Any issue with bring up comps when buying or selling a card?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I am not so sure why so many people have problems with potential buyers bringing up comps? Sure there are cards that sells so infrequently that comps are useless. But for more commonly sold or traded issues, comps are quite valuable. They are certainly a good starting point for negotiation. Many dealers prices are detached from reality, especially at the national. I have no problem with someone showing me proof that my prices are out of line.

The problem is that comps are using actual data and facts and when properly used are rooted in reality, which many people in this hobby really hate. Especially if facts are used in a way not advantageous to the agenda of the seller. Buyers who are uneducated or who come to believe it is somehow rude to access public information in front of a seller to check the price, are much preferred and more likely to overpay. That comps can work out for the seller too, rarely seems to enter the equation because the goal is to sell over market, not to sell around market.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by G1911

The problem is that comps are using actual data and facts and when properly used are rooted in reality, which many people in this hobby really hate. Especially if facts are used in a way not advantageous to the agenda of the seller. Buyers who are uneducated or who come to believe it is somehow rude to access public information in front of a seller to check the price, are much preferred and more likely to overpay. That comps can work out for the seller too, rarely seems to enter the equation because the goal is to sell over market, not to sell around market.

Nothing wrong with using comps. Other than a few knucklehead sellers on this thread, don't recall anyone saying it was. The point is people can sell for whatever they want to sell at. Free market stuff. If you know what a fair price is based on recent sales, that's great. Good intell. You are an informed consumer. But if you use it to aggressively go after someone, that's almost certainly going to go nowhere constructive. Using comps is smart. Wielding them like a sword, berating someone or trying to embarass them, that's not going to work well. Everyone has a phone and can do the necessary research.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Nothing wrong with using comps. Other than a few knucklehead sellers on this thread, don't recall anyone saying it was. The point is people can sell for whatever they want to sell at. Free market stuff. If you know what a fair price is based on recent sales, that's great. Good intell. You are an informed consumer. But if you use it to aggressively go after someone, that's almost certainly going to go nowhere constructive. Using comps is smart. Wielding them like a sword, berating someone or trying to embarass them, that's not going to work well. Everyone has a phone and can do the necessary research.

Neither of the scenarios involve aggressively going after someone. Nobody has advocated that.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by G1911

The problem is that comps are using actual data and facts and when properly used are rooted in reality, which many people in this hobby really hate. Especially if facts are used in a way not advantageous to the agenda of the seller. Buyers who are uneducated or who come to believe it is somehow rude to access public information in front of a seller to check the price, are much preferred and more likely to overpay. That comps can work out for the seller too, rarely seems to enter the equation because the goal is to sell over market, not to sell around market.

This is pretty spot on you know exactly what's going on. I think many dealers goal is to sell the card for more than they paid, make a profit. Some want more some will take less, greed is usually observed by noticing the same card, same high price, for sale by the same dealer for months on end show after show. If dealer paid too much over the past two years, which many have, they're going to have to decide, that's all. Sure, maybe they hang on and keep bringing to show, or they leverage a package deal trade, or they cut losses and give to an auction house. Who knows it's up to them? Either way in any of your comments/points I never implied any negativity or nastiness from you that seems to be the view of some on here. You're just informed and careful with your buys, that's all. Good stuff!

[steve B]

The thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is the extra stuff that goes along with most comps from online.
Shipping
Buyers premium
Maybe time spent picking it up or waiting for it.

Add those to the comp number.


Other than that I generally agree that knowing the typical price at a few grades before going to a show is sensible. Maybe less for someone like me that only has a very rough idea of what I'm looking for. I mostly look for inexpensive stuff, so it's not a big deal. Like yeah it may be a $10 card and the dealer wants 15, but it's right there in front of me and I don't have to spend anymore time looking. And that time has value too.

A dealer I spent a lot of time hanging out with in another hobby gave me advice about how to make money from hobby stuff, one bit was "be a good guesser" whether about the prices/demand/whether something was more special than it looked.


Ah for the days when an expensive card was $100.....

[jh691626]

I have never had a problem with either the comps thing or the "what I have into it" thing.

On the comps, as has been pointed out, this is just a starting point. A 1956 Mays PSA 6 with snow, jagged edges, and bad centering, and one with a clear image, clean edges, great centering can be WORLDS apart in value.

Plus, totally agree about the eBay vs. in person situation--the dealer has to pay eBay 10-15% and the buyer has to pay tax, shipping, and does not really get a good look at the card. So an in-person transaction is just going to be substantially financially different for everyone. So I am fine for someone to bring up comps as a starting point, but they are going to have to be fine with me pointing out all of the above.

For dealers talking about what they have into it, I have often found that this is actually a way of a dealer saying, "I am really not trying to be a jerk over $15 here, I really just want to get my money back on this." Of course it does not matter to the buyer WHAT the dealer has into it, but often I've experienced this as apologetic on the dealer's part, like, dude, on this one I can't go lower but it's not because I am just being a tough guy over a small amount.

Of course, there are some people being tough for no reason, but honestly, I have run into so many more great guys than jerks (especially when it comes to vintage sellers) in this hobby, so that has been my experience mostly.

[parkplace33]

Great posts on this topics. I like to see the POV from both dealers and collectors.

After reading these posts, I am truly in awe how much impact grading companies and auction houses have on this topic. Whenever an AH has a vintage graded for sale, you can normally find at least 20 comps of that card.

[rhettyeakley]

When people newer to the hobby encounter raw pre-war cards at shows sometimes their heads explode a little bit. 🤣

They have no ability to process what they are seeing or how to negotiate for a card that is not encapsulated.

[philliesfan]

I wonder......Will anyone bring up comps to a dealer because he is too low on his asking price? Will the customer ever offer more than what a dealer is asking because of what comps showed?

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by philliesfan

I wonder......Will anyone bring up comps to a dealer because he is too low on his asking price? Will the customer ever offer more than what a dealer is asking because of what comps showed?

I think we all know the answer to that question

[trambo]

Originally Posted by philliesfan

I wonder......Will anyone bring up comps to a dealer because he is too low on his asking price? Will the customer ever offer more than what a dealer is asking because of what comps showed?

I've done that a few times w/dealers who are buddies of mine. They're pretty appreciative of it. In one case, though, the dealer buddy knocked another $50 off to entice me to buy it.

[Steve_NY]

In most cases, I am negotiable as I expect to be driven down 5-15% on most sales. Guess what-- I am happy with that except when the item is incredibly rare and I will never see it again in my lifetime.

But I can get bent out of shape when someone realizes that I have underpriced an item or items and then tries to drive my price down anyway.

But I have lterally never been shown comps on any items I sell as 98% of my sales are ungraded.

[jethrod3]

Originally Posted by philliesfan

I wonder......Will anyone bring up comps to a dealer because he is too low on his asking price? Will the customer ever offer more than what a dealer is asking because of what comps showed?

Actually, as a seller at a local show, there was one gentlemen who told me my prices on most of my tickets were more than fair and he was happy to pay what I'd originally marked on the toploaders before I told him that I was willing to discount if he bought several items. This made negotiating on some of my less-discountable items easier because we both knew we were both going to be treating each other fairly and would be honest with each other. However, that's one of the rare times that has happened.

[mq711]

At the Chantilly show seemed like everyone, sellers and buyers, dealing with modern cards had their phones out discussing comps. This is probably necessary because there are so many cards issued now and all in the same condition that it’s impossible to keep track of. The good thing is a lot of these folks were trading and discussing trade value in a respectful manner.

[Tere1071]

Originally Posted by jethrod3

Actually, as a seller at a local show, there was one gentlemen who told me my prices on most of my tickets were more than fair and he was happy to pay what I'd originally marked on the toploaders before I told him that I was willing to discount if he bought several items. This made negotiating on some of my less-discountable items easier because we both knew we were both going to be treating each other fairly and would be honest with each other. However, that's one of the rare times that has happened.

On occasion, I bring my extra 1970-1975 Topps Baseball to a local small show with the hope of selling enough in order to purchase the upgrades for my sets without having to tap into the savings account. My Minister of Finance aka the wife will get on my case when she notices PayPal withdrawals from the savings account. There are very few set builders who come to this particular show and since virtually all of my purchases are from eBay I am conscious of what I have into my cards; I don't expect to make a profit, but if I break even or even if it's at a slight loss I'm satisfied.

Most people who I have dealt with (99.8%) are like the gentleman that you described. There are some collectors that use the cheapest outlying comp to justify their offer. For example, I have a very nice VG/EX 53 Bowman Color Furillo that I have priced at $20.00. There is this collector who examines the comps for every single card he considers to purchase, even if it's a dollar. He shows me a VG/EX Furillo on eBay that sold for $12.00 and I told him that I couldn't meet that price. I later checked the comps and similar and VG/EX Furillo sold between $18-$25.

The final, rare scenario is one where a person is given a per-card discount, but in the end, they request an additional package discount. If it's a dollar or so, okay; but when the buyer requests an additional discount of 20% or more I dryly reject their offer.

Phil aka Tere1071

Complete 1953 Bowman Color, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, and 1975 Topps Baseball sets under revision as the budget and wife allows

Under construction:
1970 Topps Baseball - missing over 100 cards, mostly after #450 and the three insert sets

1971 Topps Coins- 120/153

1974 Topps Baseball Washington variations