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  #1  
Old 11-21-2005, 08:31 AM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: barrysloate

Well, it took less than 30 minutes for Mastro's N167 Welch to surpass what mine went for this past Thursday. I guess there's no reason to beat around the bush. Records were made to be broken anyway.

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  #2  
Old 11-21-2005, 08:38 AM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: Bryan Long

That it is not safe to say that I will not be able to afford anything that i want in the Mastro auction once again.

My website: http://photobucket.com/albums/b45/trib01/

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  #3  
Old 11-21-2005, 08:42 AM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: Hal Lewis

Anyone who wants the Welch will have to GROSSLY OVERPAY to beat me on it.

I will be up ALL NIGHT on that one if I have to do so.


Granted, I am sure there are a lot of folks out there who want the card and who can certainly afford to OVERPAY for it...

but I am hoping that I have always been nice to those people and that they will use their dollars to buy SOMETHING ELSE in the auction!!


Please.

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  #4  
Old 11-21-2005, 08:44 AM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: Hal Lewis

And to prove my "Good Will Towards Fellow Man"...

I will have THIS card up for grabs to Board Members if I can somehow get lucky and win the N167:


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  #5  
Old 11-21-2005, 09:28 AM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: barrysloate

Hal- and I will get a good night sleep that night and root for you to win it.

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  #6  
Old 11-21-2005, 12:18 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: warshawlaw

I'd rather have the N167 boxer trio that's up for sale anyhow.

Pretty ballsy maneuver there, Hal. I don't have the stones to throw down and say "look out I'm after it" on a lot. Well, I guess if you have the bank to chase down a T206 Wagner, you are entitled to throw down the gauntlet on an N167. Good luck and hopefully no one decides to run it up on you just because you made it a challenge.

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  #7  
Old 11-21-2005, 12:30 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: zach

I was just gonna say that Adam. Now that everyone knows that you will bid uber high on it because you want it so bad and will not give it up whats stopping people from just bidding you up ? I hope no one does but I wouldn't have said what Hal said.

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  #8  
Old 11-21-2005, 12:31 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: Hal Lewis

Adam:

But what if I am only "barking" and not REALLY willing to "bite" any further on this card??



Then someone who is trying to "run me up" may very well get stuck with a card they didn't really want.

Why would I do that???

Because if someone is willing to pay more than $30,000 for an SGC 20 Hall of Famer from the N167 set...

then it sure will do wonders for the value of my three other N167 HOF's that are graded PSA 7, PSA 4 and SGC 50(4) respectively.



In other words... I may be bluffing.

Anyone who wants to outbid my current bid should certainly consider that possibility.

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  #9  
Old 11-21-2005, 12:34 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: Hal Lewis

I also think that I owe it to my friends in the hobby to let them know NOT to "save" their auction dollars to try and get this card...

so that they can spend them elsewhere in the auction on OTHER cool stuff.




I'm crazy like a Foxx


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  #10  
Old 11-21-2005, 12:37 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: Jay Miller

Hal--Is that you also playing gamesmanship on the E107 Davis?

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  #11  
Old 11-21-2005, 12:42 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: Hal Lewis

Jay:

Isn't that also PART of the "Gamesmanship"???



If I disclose ONE particular item on which I am bidding...

then won't people wonder whether or not I am bidding on other items??

If I do NOT mention a different lot... does it or does it not mean that I am not interested???


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  #12  
Old 11-21-2005, 12:44 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: Hal Lewis

Who's to say that I am not the SELLER of the Welch card and am just SHILLING my own card???

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  #13  
Old 11-21-2005, 12:44 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: RC McKenzie

I noticed in the auction description that they called the 3 boxers a "complete set", but I know I've seen a different n167 boxer than the three listed.

About 2 years ago on ebay there was an 167 boxer listed in the tobacco section of ebay. The seller did not know what he had and listed it with a generic 'I don't know' description. I had a bid on it within hours of the listing, but it was "taken down" and ended early and my bid was cancelled.

I can't recall the boxer's name, but the card depicted a pose with the boxer facing to the left.

I've been trying to remember the name of the n167 boxer I saw on ebay since I first saw the Mastro lot go up. If my memory gets jogged I'll follow up.


Edit to add- I'm almost positive it was Geo. Dixon

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  #14  
Old 11-21-2005, 12:46 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: Jay Miller

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows!

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  #15  
Old 11-21-2005, 12:52 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: Hal Lewis

In this case, the Shadow knows...

and I guess so do Mastro and Struss!

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  #16  
Old 11-21-2005, 02:59 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: barrysloate

How about nobody run anybody up and just bid on items and at levels that you are willing to go to. Nobody has to bid Hal up or try to guess if he is bluffing or not. If you want the card bid; if you don't want it stay away. It's called good faith.

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  #17  
Old 11-21-2005, 03:01 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: jay behrens

no worries about me running up the bid, unless it's in old German Deutschmark from the 30s.

Jay

If you can sue a band for making you want to commit suicide, can I sue Barry Manilow for turning me into a wuss in the 70s?

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  #18  
Old 11-21-2005, 03:14 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: warshawlaw

You are correct; there is another N167 boxer (it is a Jem Smith with horizontal back and is depicted in my book). The Mastro description of the 3 as all the boxers in N167 is wrong.

Hal: No plans, just pointing out the issue. As far as publicity doing wonders for the value of your own stuff, I hear you. The spate of three figure exhibit card sales lately has done that for me, although I have mixed feelings (nice to see the cards receiving their due; not so nice to realize that I will have to pay their due to collect more).

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  #19  
Old 11-21-2005, 03:25 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: Josh K.

Hey Hal,

Buy the card not the grade - my Foxx rookie looks as nice or better than that 40 and you can probably get it for a fraction of the price you will pay for the 40.

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  #20  
Old 11-21-2005, 04:13 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: RC McKenzie

Adam,

I have your book. I have looked thru the n167 section. The card I saw is not in your book. The card I saw was definitely an n167 design on the front with an African American boxer on the front. I think the boxer was Geo. Dixon. I have no other information about it though. At the time I saw it, I didn't know enough about it to take note of it.

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  #21  
Old 11-21-2005, 04:42 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: warshawlaw

But you never know what is out there in those wacky N series. Wish you had an image, though.

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  #22  
Old 11-21-2005, 05:00 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: Julie Vognar

the handwriting of someone famous, who wrote his W-L record all over the back, there'll be mine in REA:

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  #23  
Old 11-21-2005, 06:00 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: Hal Lewis

Great card, Julie!

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  #24  
Old 11-21-2005, 10:38 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: warshawlaw

He was only 16 when the cards were issued.

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  #25  
Old 11-22-2005, 12:34 AM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: RC McKenzie

I dug around a little and found that Dixon had one fight in 1886 and 2 in 1887 followed by quite a few in 1888, according to cyber boxing zone.

I don't know enough about the dates of production of n167, but I've heard 1886. So, unless he was a famous amateur fighter as a youngster or n167's were made as late as 1888, it seems improbable that they made a card of George Dixon.

On timeline alone, it seems like it could have been Peter Jackson, but I don't have a specific recollection of seeing Jackson on the card.

I could be entirely mistaken on this whole point, and at this point I'm just speculating on what I thought I saw. Regards

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  #26  
Old 11-22-2005, 11:16 AM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: warshawlaw

because it would be the 1st black athlete card, predating the N174 Peter Jackson by a year. Anyone out there have this card???

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  #27  
Old 11-22-2005, 11:39 AM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: Jay Miller

Adam--Isn't the Dixon Old Judge or Gypsy Queen the first card of a Black athlete?

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  #28  
Old 11-22-2005, 05:52 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: warshawlaw

The black athletes in the set include Peter Jackson and George Godfrey; I don't have a Dixon on the checklist. If you have one I'd like to see it.

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  #29  
Old 11-22-2005, 09:40 PM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: Jay Miller

Adam--Sorry Adam, I meant Godfrey. Do you have a scan of the Jackson card?

Thanks--Jay

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  #30  
Old 11-23-2005, 06:51 AM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: warshawlaw

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  #31  
Old 11-23-2005, 11:40 AM
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Default N167 Welch
Posted By: JimB

Hal,
Somebody ignored your warning.
JimB

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