Slightly O/T: Did Cy Young "Only" Win 510 Games?

[z28jd]

While looking up some info for a player on the 1890 Pittsburgh Alleghenys, I ran across this very interesting note from the president of the Pittsburgh club. The Alleghenys played the Cleveland Spiders on September 18, 1890 in Canton, Ohio. The Spiders won and the winning pitcher was a rookie named Cy Young...

Here's the interesting part. The club president claimed that it was just an exhibition game in an 1890 issue of the Sporting Life two weeks later. Clubs played in-season exhibition games all of the time back then AND the Alleghenys played a game two days later in Wheeling, WV which he doesn't say anything about being an exhibition game.

You would think the club president would know if a game was an exhibition or not, but here he is in black and white claiming that one of Cy Young's career wins shouldn't be counted on his record.

[z28jd]

Perhaps more proof is needed?

The Pittsburgh Press from September 19, 1890

Or the standings two days after they played their final game. Current records show 23-113 for reference

[Fred]

John, they could take away 11 wins and he'd still have 500! Something tells me that is one of those unbreakable records...

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Fred

John, they could take away 11 wins and he'd still have 500! Something tells me that is one of those unbreakable records...

It wouldn't be a big deal (to me at least) if 511 wasn't such an iconic number. You mention 511 to any serious baseball fan and they should know it's Cy Young's win total.

Baseball lives for iconic numbers. I still find it completely ridiculous that every year on the anniversary of Pete Rose breaking Ty Cobb's hit record that absolutely nothing is mentioned, despite it being known for over 30 years that Cobb actually finished with 4,189 hits, not 4,191. Hit 4,192 was the moment he celebrated it and anyone who saw it, remembers it, but it needs to be called what it is. You just don't gloss over the actual historic moment because someone added wrong years ago.

I've found other mistakes and not shared them here, but this one is a pretty big deal and has some major proof that the game didn't count. The local paper didn't even print a boxscore, which could be a fourth example if I knew how to show something that wasn't there.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Maybe I missed it, but what makes you think the win was counted in his regular season totals?

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Maybe I missed it, but what makes you think the win was counted in his regular season totals?

It's listed as an official game now and he threw a complete game in the win.

All of the stuff above shows that it wasn't an official game and shouldn't be included in the stats for the 18 players in the game.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by z28jd

It wouldn't be a big deal (to me at least) if 511 wasn't such an iconic number. You mention 511 to any serious baseball fan and they should know it's Cy Young's win total.

Baseball lives for iconic numbers. I still find it completely ridiculous that every year on the anniversary of Pete Rose breaking Ty Cobb's hit record that absolutely nothing is mentioned, despite it being known for over 30 years that Cobb actually finished with 4,189 hits, not 4,191. Hit 4,192 was the moment he celebrated it and anyone who saw it, remembers it, but it needs to be called what it is. You just don't gloss over the actual historic moment because someone added wrong years ago.

I've found other mistakes and not shared them here, but this one is a pretty big deal and has some major proof that the game didn't count. The local paper didn't even print a boxscore, which could be a fourth example if I knew how to show something that wasn't there.

Iconic numbers change all the time. When I was a kid, Ty Cobb had a career .367 average, Hack Wilson got 190 RBI, Charles Radbourn got 60 wins, Hugh Duffy hit .438, Dutch Leonard had a 1.01 ERA, Walter Johnson had 414 wins, and so on.

We need to recognize the correct numbers.

[Butch7999]

Chris, agreed, correct, and if some evidence is unearthed that should change the currently official count,
it shouldn't just be bandied about by a few fans and left there.
z28jd, have you approached MLB, RetroSheet, and/or the HOF with your research?