Scrapbook Find - H812s? Keefe and Connor

[vintagesportflips]

I am usually more of a memoribilia collector and poster on the memoribilia side, but I recently picked up a scrapbook that has a wide variety of trade cards, scraps, flag etc tobacco cards, but it also has 2 interesting baseball pieces. They have the appearance of trimmed H812s, and in one of them you can make out the name Roger Connor at the bottom, the other I believe is Tim Keefe. They are approximately three inches tall. I believe based on net54 archives searching that REA sold 8 trimmed H812s about 15 years ago, 1 of which included Keefe even though he isn't listed on the checklists available online. What do you guys think? Are these H812s? or some other period piece? The other pieces in the scrapbook are definetly 1880s period.

Thanks
Keith
Here are some scans:

[canjond]

I don't think they are H812s. Names usually appear underneath the portrait, and I'm not aware of any writing that goes through the bottom portion of the portrait as can be seen in the scrapbooks pages you have pictured above.

[Leon]

Based on the Welch I previously owned, that was full, I believe these are H812's......Nice pickup....

[Leon]

I don't remember writing on the upper parts of any I have seen but I am sticking with my guess....they are so scarce I don't remember seeing more than a few.....

[barrysloate]

Great find! While these two portraits are in the style of H812, with the same ties and collars, as noted above H812's do not have any printing on the body of the player. I checked the Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards and Rob's 1995 catalog for images, and these confirm that. What you have is something in that format, but they are not exactly the same.

[barrysloate]

The Tim Keefe has an E on his right shoulder, and the Roger Connor an AT on his left. Any thoughts on what that could be?

[orator1]

Here are the H812s for Welch and Deasley compared to the images of Keefe and Connor.

Eight cards are on the H812 checklist:
Dorgan, Esterbrook, Gerhardt, O'Rourke, Richardson, Welch, Deasley, Ewing

Three additional unlisted cards were sold in the 1995 REA auction:
Ward, Keefe, and Gillespie

As far as I know, an H812 Connor has not yet been verified.

Welch's name is printed right below his tie, and Connor's name is printed right below his tie.
Deasley's name is printed to the left of his tie, so it is possible that the "E" on Keefe's card is the "E" in his last name.
The blue ink is remarkably similar - if not an exact match - in the cards and the images.
If the owner of the eight H812s sold at the 1995 REA auction could post some images that would be very helpful.

Paul C.

[Exhibitman]

The bottom of the Connor has the lettering "Roger Connor" partially visible. My hunch is that these images are reused for an ad piece for another product and that the lettering on the shoulders is from that ad.

[vintagesportflips]

Thanks guys for all the comments and info. Barry, do you have a scan of the image the REA showed for their 1995 auction? If so, would be able to post it? It seems there was some variability on where the players name appears under the portrait, with the Deasley being at an angle off to the side and Welch well below the portrait. The lettering seemed odd on the bottom to me too. I am not sure how the advertising on the bottom of the cards was determined, but it appears the Welch and Deasley had different advertisements on the bottom, so it is possible that the shoulder lettering on Keefe and Connor is somehow part of the advertisement on the card? I know this would be unlikely given the off to the side positioning of the letters, but I guess I can't say its impossible. A cut up advertising piece or a trimmed composite piece used to advertise for the card set also seems like a possibility.

[barrysloate]

Sorry, I don't know how to scan.

And the REA catalog pictured only a tiny image of the Ward. None of the others were there. This was the old days when everything was small.

[vintagesportflips]

No problem. I actually emailed REA earlier this morning to get their opinion on the pair.

[orator1]

Does anyone have the 1995 REA catalog who can post a scan of Ward's H812 card? It may be tiny but it's the card's only known image.