PWCC's 1936 Goudey World Wide Gum DiMaggio PSA 7

[botn]

Here is the 15 CJ Jackson before it was cleaned. Come on David and Jake, you guys try to find the other 9 on the list and let's all have fun.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by botn

Here is the 15 CJ Jackson before it was cleaned. Come on David and Jake, you guys try to find the other 9 on the list and let's all have fun.

Took you like 5 minutes to find it. I bet when you buy a card you will know the history of it. Looks like that card was soaked and not ripped in half and no razor was involved. I bet a tidy profit was made. The buyer of the card may of known about the alteration as well. Not sure what you are proving except that soaking is commonplace and never disclosed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Took you like 5 minutes to find it. I bet when you buy a card you will know the history of it. Looks like that card was soaked and not ripped in half and no razor was involved. I bet a tidy profit was made. The buyer of the card may of known about the alteration as well. Not sure what you are proving except that soaking is commonplace and never disclosed.

Now it's the buyer's fault. Cortney should have figured it out for himself. Yes indeed. I deceived you, but it was your fault because you should have figured out I was deceiving you.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Now it's the buyer's fault. Cortney should have figured it out for himself. Yes indeed.

For once we agree on something. Personal responsibility is not a bad thing. No reason to buy Title insurance when you buy a house. Just take it how it is, it cant be the buyers fault when buying anything.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

For once we agree on something. Personal responsibility is not a bad thing. No reason to buy Title insurance when you buy a house. Just take it how it is, it cant be the buyers fault when buying anything.

No we completely disagree obviously, I was being sarcastic.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No we completely disagree obviously, I was being sarcastic.

and I wasnt?

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Philip may not be a lawyer but as one who is, I must say I am impressed with the cogency and simple logic of his arguments here.

Right anyone who agrees with you is someone you are impressed with.



I just have more of a problem with the shilling then the arguable accepted practices of what to disclose and how a card can be soaked/altered.

If there are more people out there that implicate PWCC with colluded shilling that would be interesting...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

and I wasnt?



Right anyone who agrees with you you are impressed with.

I suspect that you were, but it can be difficult to decipher your Delphic posts sometimes.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

and I wasnt?



Right anyone who agrees with you is someone you are impressed with.

Not at all. I am equally impressed by people who disagree with me if they state their arguments well.

[botn]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Took you like 5 minutes to find it. I bet when you buy a card you will know the history of it. Looks like that card was soaked and not ripped in half and no razor was involved. I bet a tidy profit was made. The buyer of the card may of known about the alteration as well. Not sure what you are proving except that soaking is commonplace and never disclosed.

Well I know what you prove with each of your posts so I will not even bother responding to your "content".

[Peter_Spaeth]

Looked better with the stains, Greg.

[Rookiemonster]

Who sold that card Greg ?

Ps your awesome

[botn]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Who sold that card Greg ?

Ps your awesome

All of the cards in the recreated submission, that graded, were tied to PWCC, except for the 33 Foxx.

[jmb]

Originally Posted by botn

Here is the 15 CJ Jackson before it was cleaned. Come on David and Jake, you guys try to find the other 9 on the list and let's all have fun.

I guess none of those white spots are paper loss that was colored in ?

What a way to make money. Lather, rinse, repeat.
And, it's not illegal like counterfeiting.

[botn]

Here is the D304 Cobb before it was cleaned up. The corners look a bit tighter too but I suppose that is ok to all the spinners.

[DeanH3]

[QUOTE=jmb;1632234]I guess none of those white spots are paper loss that was colored in ?

That caught my eye as well. Maybe they were tiny paper scraps adhered to the front? I dunno but curious indeed.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by botn

Here is the 15 CJ Jackson before it was cleaned. Come on David and Jake, you guys try to find the other 9 on the list and let's all have fun.

Did you doctor that one? I am sure you will be happy to tell us about your days as a partner of a card doctor, no? I will never forget the phone call when your partner called me, I answered the phone to "Hello Leon, I am a card doctor".....remember that Greg? He went onto carefully explain to me how the guys on the board don't know doctoring and exactly what was being done. He said he was making almost 7 figures and driving a Bentley. First time I met him was with you at the National.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Leon

Did you doctor that one? I am sure you will be happy to tell us about your days as a partner of a card doctor, no? I will never forget the phone call when your partner called me, I answered the phone to "Hello Leon, I am a card doctor".....remember that Greg? He went onto carefully explain to me how the guys on the board don't know doctoring and exactly what was being done. He said he was making almost 7 figures and driving a Bentley. First time I met him was with you at the National.

So Greg is bringing up all of these cards that got upgraded and asks me for comment but he has history of being involved and I have ZERO history.

Like i said, i dont think soaking cards is something thats ever disclosed (imagine all of those 1914 cracker jacks percentage of being soaked)

I wish i knew someone that was almost making 7 figures and driving a Bentley that was hobby card partner. I swim in much smaller waters. My friends in the hobby drive Pontiacs

Again, I dont think soaking is something that is disclosed as a regular business practice, I just find it interesting I am asked for comment about cards that have been upgraded in PWCC auctions which I have nothing to do with while the person asking has an obvious strong connection to the practice of upgrading cards according to Leon.

As to PWCC disclosing on the Dimaggio. I dont think it was scam behavior if the card was soaked (if cut and half and restored and tricked PSA thats a different story) but i think they lose credibility since they had direct knowledge of the history and did not disclose. Also if someone 'upgraded' the card and was selling it in a direct deal and said 'this card was previously not graded' and sold the card for 75k that would be actionable of course. I am not biased in support or against PWCC. I do think the buyer of a 50k card needs to do due dilligence as well and garners blame when a 5 minute google search would find a past sale of the exact card.

In addition if there was colluding as to shill bidding between any auction house and bidders there would be a direct actionable risk there as well.

[jcc6252]

Originally Posted by botn

Here is the 15 CJ Jackson before it was cleaned. Come on David and Jake, you guys try to find the other 9 on the list and let's all have fun.

Here's the Nagurski before the faint check mark (top and center above the "T" in "STARS") on the back disappeared, followed by card scans as it looked in the PWCC sale.
Based on your recreated submission, is it fair to assume the submission came from PWCC, and PWCC doctored many of these beforehand?

PSA 4(MK): Heritage Auctions 05/14/2015 Sold for: $3,824.00
PSA 3.5: PWCC 10/18/2015 Sold for: $4616.00

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Not 100% they're the same card. I also see what looks like writing in his armpit area of his left arm (our right) on the before.

[jcc6252]

Good catch, I did not see that writing. It appears on the after, also, possibly less so?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't think that's the same card, if it is the upper right corner got more rounded. Also the bottom border is smaller on the newer one, although it could be the slat is making it appear so.

[jcc6252]

I agree about the upper right corner being more rounded, but that could have been due to handling. The border difference is probably more from the scans being slightly different in size altogether. The focus is the same, multiple print marks are the same, the writing under the armpit is the same.

[orly57]

If it is the same card, the color suffered badly when it was worked on:

[swarmee]

The dot in the right margin a quarter of the way up the right border looks the same, as does the centering. I think it's probably the same card, but the top right corner did get injured during the crack/erasure. The washed out color could just be a difference in scanner settings.

Addition: The cert number still checks out in the registry, so if it was cracked out, the flip wasn't sent back in for removal from the registry.