Talking about American Card Catalogs

[Leon]

The history of the hobby is interesting and many of us addicted card collectors enjoy knowing where it all started. Some of the earliest printed materials concerning the hobby are the Card Collectors Bulletins which have been posted recently and will continue to be posted for many more weeks. One of the other neat things, which can be collected, are the American Card Catalogs themselves, which is where most of our numbering system that we use today came from. There are a few other places some of the numbers came from, but by and large, they are from the ACC (American Card Catalog). As we know, Mr. Burdick authored the first catalog and it was named The United States Card Collectors Catalog, published June 1, 1939, for the hefty sum of 50 cents. Before that, some cards were listed in the Card Collectors Bulletins and were organized in that fashion. The numbering in the 1939 catalog was completely different than what any future editions would have. Mr.Burdick changed it in the subsequent editions, from that first edition, to try to simplify it. I don't want to go too deep into the ACC's in this thread as there is enough material to write a chapter, or even a short book, on the subject. Suffice it to say that the catalog was updated every 7 yrs and had revised editions put out in 1946, 1953, 1960. The last one was by Richard Gelman put out in 1967 and was said to be an exact copy of the 1960 edition. There have been subsequent reprints of many of the editions but the last, non-reprint one was 1960. For that reason we should generally use that latest edition when talking about the numbering. The 1939's are very scarce.....best regards

[bh3443]

Hi Leon,
Thanks for another great thread. In my early years in our hobby, I was told by many veteran collectors that they valued their hobby publications and books as much if not more than the cards. This includes correspondence which many of these veterans saved and filed meticulously.
I remember an early issue of the ACC I had with a letter about how the hot item of the day were Clipper Ship cards. All these years later, I was thrilled to see mention of these gems in one of the Card Bulletins you posted! Early Clipper Ship cards are works of art and museum worthy.
Thanks again for another interesting thread.
Your Friend,
Bill Hedin
PS: Thanks sooooooo much for the Net54 pins!

[Jeffrompa]

Here is an interesting 1960 Hardback Version owned by Postcard Guru and Author Moe Luff who wrote a book of Postcard Cancellation Slogans . Not sure how much he was into Baseball but all types of collectors had these books on hand .

Sorry for the blurry pics .

[Joe Hunter]

1953 Edition

[jcmtiger]

Joe H., is that copy really that pink color.

Here is my 1953 ACC.

Joe

[Joe Hunter]

Actually, more orange than pink. It has faded a little but was originally a fairly bright orange. Yours may also have been orange and faded to that tanish color.

[Jeffrompa]

Here is the 1946 with 1949 revisions . Even in 1946 Burdick said " Scarcity adds zest to any collecting hobby " . How zesty is it now ?

[Leon]

Thanks Jeffrompa for the additional info. And to add a bit more there are also supplements of 1940, 1941, 1942 and 1943 to the original ACC. There are also quite a few other, later supplements, but I am still doing some research and each day yields something I didn't know before. As recently as today I found some new information out that I am still trying to piece together. best regards

[toppcat]

Buck Barker assumed the new cataloging responsibilities in the 1950's as Burdick worked to mount his collection for the Met. After the 1960 ACC was released, regular updates coordinated by Barker appeared in the Card Collectors Bulletin, from November 21, 1960 throughFebruary 1972. Around 1968 an attempt was made to change the way newer R cards were catalogued, in keeping with a long tradition of the ACC numbering being tweaked as time passed. No, the numbering is not and never was set in stone.

Chris Benjamin collected all of these updates and issued them as a booklet in 1990, which is a fantastic resource. I would be interested to hear about the other updates that were issued before 1960 as such publications can really help pinpoint certain things. Here is the cover of the collected ACC Updates:

[t206 cubs]

Anybody know where i might be able to pick up a copy of the 1960 or '67 version?
Thanks Chad

Please email me at: shearerchad@yahoo.com

[Rich Klein]

I never had seen the 1990 Benjamin update before --- and he did work for Sport Americana (Non Sports) while I was with Beckett. I'm impressed that I had never seen that work before otherwise I would have purchased that back in the day

Rich

[ChuckRoss]

I've got all the original ACCs except the 1939, thanks for sharing that Leon. Here's another interesting publication from the late 60's, I've copied in a couple of pages, one that shows Bill Mastro as a teenager and the other with Larry Fritsch (and also noted non-sports dealer, the late Bob Foster).

[Rich Klein]

Both Crawford and Stanley McClure also had very impressive collections

[t206 cubs]

What would be the best place to find a copy of the ACC? Maybe a 1960 or '67 edition.

Thanks Chad

email me at: shearerchad@yahoo.com

[Jcfowler6]

Looks like the 1967 version can be got on eBay for $75.00

I am on phone phone and can't link it but if you search it I am sure it will come up.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Jcfowler6

Looks like the 1967 version can be got on eBay for $75.00

Good info and you might also check Larry Fritsch cards. They regularly have those in stock (and is where I got mine) almost all of the time, unless they recently ran out of them, for about $30 or so. If you wait just a bit on ebay you can easily get them in that price range, or less, I think.

[Jeffrompa]

Here is a May 1954 supplement I just found . Talks about some card prices going up 5 cents to 25 cents on many series per card .

[Leon]

Hi Jeffrompa
Thanks for sharing that 1954 one. I am going to have to check my later supplements but all of the earlier ones say "Supplement" on them. Does that one say that on one of the other pages? The reason I ask is because this one you showed looks like more of a series to me, with the volume and no. . It does have a lot of price changes so I can't imagine it being anything else, unless it's the first price guide, pre-Beckett .

Also, I would have thought it would say "American Card Catalog" and not "Collector"?

[Rich Klein]

The catalog is the catlalog -- and these were updates and other things -- thus thie name difference to collector makes perfect sense

Rich

[Leon]

In looking back at several, newer and older supplements/additions/updates, it does seem they are called different things. Thanks for the help....

[toppcat]

Is American Card Collector in fact related to the ACC? I have seen it in lists of old hobby mags but the type looks completely different than the one used in the ACC, IMHO.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Is American Card Collector in fact related to the ACC? I have seen it in lists of old hobby mags but the type looks completely different than the one used in the ACC, IMHO.

I am still not 100% comfortable with that being a supplement. It makes no sense whatsoever to have a volume and no. on a supplement. None....

That being said there were different names for the supplements I have.....They were called -

1940 - Catalog Supplement
1941 - Catalog Supplement/Catalog Additions and Corrections
1942- Catalog Additions and Corrections
1943 - Catalog Supplement

However, one I have that is a mimeograph for 1955 says-
Further Additions - The Detroit Handbook - June 1955

I know I have more but need to look around some. Stuff is scattered everywhere right now . The last one I have at hand is from 1960 and says-
First Catalog Additions to 1960 Catalog

I will look around some more soon and see what more I can find. But my first thought above should be taken into account. I have seen 0 additions/supplements/Corrections that say they are a Volume and No., except above. BTW, I am not dissing on the item Jeffrompa showed, just a friendly debate. That is a neat item and certainly worthy of discussion.

regards

[danmckee]

Killer item Leon!!

Where did u ever find something this rare??

[Leon]

Originally Posted by danmckee

..

Where did u ever find something this rare??

From you

......though less than 2 weeks later I got a second one with the supplements....so one might go on the auction block soon.....

[Jeffrompa]

Hey Leon ,


I guess that is not really a Supplement. LOL Its only a folder . It was sent out with a front , back and two middle pages .

[molen]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-AMERICA...d#ht_720wt_973

This Catalog is currently up on eBay. Anyone know anything about this copy? It doesn't resemble anything you all have shared in this thread.

I've been reading a lot about Burdick lately and I'd love to get my hands on a copy of the ACC, regardless of what year it is. Along those lines, what should I expect to pay (ballpark) for a copy? I don't want to completely overpay or buy something that isn't a true ACC by Burdick.

Thanks all...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by molen

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-AMERICA...d#ht_720wt_973

This Catalog is currently up on eBay. Anyone know anything about this copy? It doesn't resemble anything you all have shared in this thread.

I've been reading a lot about Burdick lately and I'd love to get my hands on a copy of the ACC, regardless of what year it is. Along those lines, what should I expect to pay (ballpark) for a copy? I don't want to completely overpay or buy something that isn't a true ACC by Burdick.

Thanks all...

They don't know what they have. That is a 1960 version.

If I were only buying one copy to use as a reference I would buy the last one put out, which is a reprint of 1960, from 1967. You can get legit copies, soft cover, that are brand new for about $30 from Larry Fritsch cards. regards

[molen]

Thanks for the info, Leon. I appreciate the insight.

But if someone wanted to pick up an original, just for the sake of collecting, would that eBay price be reasonable for that edition? Just curious...

Thanks again..

[Leon]

Originally Posted by molen

Thanks for the info, Leon. I appreciate the insight.

But if someone wanted to pick up an original, just for the sake of collecting, would that eBay price be reasonable for that edition? Just curious...

Thanks again..

I actually follow the ACCs pricing. That price is about middle of the road. I would try to get one for $40-$50, which you can do if you are patient. I have dupes o all of them except 1960 . A 1939 edition will set you back approximately $1000-$1300....

[toppcat]

The blue paperback is the 67 edition, there is a later one from 1988 that is green and also reprints the 1960 ACC. These two were put out by Woody Gelman (1967) and then his son Richard (1988). After the 1960 edition only updates were done, usually if not exclusively printed in the CCB but I am not sure if they mailed these out to non CCB subscribers if someone requested one. The last update is from Feb, 1972.

As noted above Chris Benjamin issued a pamphlet of these updates in 1990 and in it he takes Woody Gelman to task for not issuing a new version in '67, just a reprint. Benjamin asserts that the information for a full 1967 ACC with new and updated information had been prepared (presumably by Buck Barker, perhaps meaning the updates from CCB )but the project never got off the ground. Buck Barker, who took over as keeper of the information in 1960 is alleged to have finally realized Woody was not going to issue another ACC and that is why the updates died in Feb. 72. Woody was breaking down physically by then I think so who knows what the real story was.

What # did CCB end with, it went on for a long time after Burdick died and then after Barker passed even. The last ACC update appeared in issue #191. Sports issues, especially baseball, were somewhat cataloged in various guides during the 70's but a lot of information on non sport or less popular pastimes was lost after the updates stopped. A shame the rest of the span did not have updates issued for it and I am pretty sure the post war cards, if not all R cards, would all have been reworked to have the year show for each issue by then, like they started to do at the end of the 60's in the updates.

Here is the 1988 reprint, I use this book all the time:



Here is a Dec 1989 CCB, must be one of the last ones:

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Leon

However, one I have that is a mimeograph for 1955 says-
Further Additions - The Detroit Handbook - June 1955

regards

Leon, is that Detroit update in fact an update for Burdick's History of Detroit Publishing Co. Postcards book? I'll bet it is. So it's not an ACC update but it IS a Burdick publication.

[Leon]

Dave- I just checked again. My blue hardback, like the one listed in the auction (I think), is dated 1960. I use the green copy one every day and it is dated 1988.

I will have to check that other question....not sure.

aha....I see the one listed on ebay is a soft cover. It probably is a 1967 then. It's confusing as the 1960 hard cover edition has a book cover that looks exactly like that 1967 reprint.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Leon

aha....I see the one listed on ebay is a soft cover. It probably is a 1967 then. It's confusing as the 1960 hard cover edition has a book cover that looks exactly like that 1967 reprint.

That makes a lot of sense, the reprint would have replicated the 60 bookcover.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by toppcat

That makes a lot of sense, the reprint would have replicated the 60 bookcover.

My 1960 has the book cover and has "American Card Catalog" on the spine of the book cover (not on the book itself). If you look at the one on ebay it has that and also "Nostalgia Press"....which of course the original doesn't have. Now, since I have added all of this rubbish to this thread I am going to dig out something real neat, and post it, to make up for it .

[toppcat]

While we wait Leon, I goggled Detroit Publishing and they look to have printed in excess of 14,500 postcards, many in full, glorious photographic color and starting in 1898.. NY Public Librrey has a huge collection of them. Burdick's original guide came out in 1954, the supplement (32 pages) followed in '55.