What defines your collection? Why is baseball different?

[bk400]

Forgive me, as this might be considered an excessively lengthy and philosophical post. But based on what I've read from my short time as a member here, this forum largely comprises a thoughtful, educated and introspective group. So here it goes:

1) What drives your collecting habits? I am guessing that most here are not the equivalent of sports card day traders, although I'm sure many are not averse to buying cards purely for the purpose of selling for a profit at a later date. But fundamentally, what drives your purchase and sales decisions? Are most of your purchases PC buys, but then the parameters of your PC change, so you become a seller? Or are you a dispassionate buyer who may hate Mel Ott, but if there's a good deal, you buy because you know you can sell to someone else at a profit?

For me, I have found that my collection needs a narrative. A narrative that is more important than the absolute dollar value of the cards themselves.

If I get hit by the proverbial bus tomorrow, my children who look through my collection will be able to understand why I accumulated what I accumulated. They will find cards of players who were "good" men and women and who had a positive legacy (to the extent the public personas are representative of reality) off the field. A lot of team captains and tough defenders, especially outside of baseball. I'm embarrassed, but not ashamed, to say that I've probably overpaid collecting cards of athletes like Hank Aaron, Larry Fitzgerald, Roberto Clemente, Ernie Banks, Ozzie Smith, Joe Montana, Charles Oakley, and Mia Hamm.

Yes, I collect Lawrence Taylor. But right next to his rookie cards will be an entire collection of Harry Carson, the emblematic team captain (as an aside, even on the field, I always thought that the job of meeting the opposition's halfback head-on, coming full steam through the D-line took a lot more courage and pain tolerance than that of running around the end trying to hit a QB's blindside while he's trying to throw the ball).

I have a lot of Dwight Gooden and Keith Hernandez, but their cards are stacked next to an equal number of Gary Carter, Mariano Rivera and Cal Ripkens.

What principles define your collection?

2) What is it about baseball that makes it easier for us to care about players that we've never seen play?

I love collecting Hank Aaron. But I've never seen him play. His career ended before I had any real consciousness about sports. And I am certain that the collectors here on this forum have never seen any of the T206 guys play. Or Ruth. Or even Mays, Mantle or Clemente in most cases -- yet their cards remain some of the most coveted in the hobby. Conversely, in basketball, Michael Jordan resonates with me because I watched him play growing up. So does Charles Oakley. But Willis Reed and Wilt don't mean anything, and I wouldn't even think of buying their paper. I'll buy Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, and football players of those vintages. But I couldn't care less about Joe Namath or Bart Starr or Terry Bradshaw.

Am I an outlier, or is this the case with others?

[steve B]

My collecting habits are odd at best, when I started, there was so much different available usually inexpensively that I tended to buy without much regard for condition or what player it was. Sort of prompted by friends saying that it wasn't much if I didn't have the whole set.
Over the years I've ranged from buying whatever I came across cheap, being sort of picky about condition, etc

I eventually settled into wanting mostly ok condition or better but not minding the worse cards that came my way. Can't really afford stars in prewar, and now most of postwar. So I look for oddities.
My wife says I like the hunting better than the catching, which is pretty much true. Always fun to hunt for things that are overlooked and special in some way.

Part 2 is a bit harder, I think it's because until very recently baseball had few changes to the game. And with long careers there's some continuity from one era to another. Like Red sox left fielders... Williams, Yaz, Rice, and maybe Greenwell. All good to great hitters, all played down as not being good fielders, (Like playing there lets anyone look good as a fielder) All not really great with the press.
That's about 50 years or more of having sort of similar left fielders
(Yes, I relaize none of the later guys were anywhere near Williams.)

And I think especially pre- free agency, most teams had something like that.

Football has had constantly evolving rules for ages, Basketball has changed mostly in how it's played, and hockey been stable except for how many teams there are.

All of them have players with typically short careers. So the continuity from one era of play to another isn't there. (to me, maybe not to someone else)

[brunswickreeves]

Very insightful and thought provoking post.

My collection has always focused on (relative) low cost entry as I’m a prudent budget hawk. That might change in retirement, but I’ve always believed for my PC, a card should ultimately cost (trading up to it) no more than the $0.05 pack it originally came in. I’ve had one single card and collecting goal since I was 11, so is a definitive and hyper focused collection pinnacle. That is a legacy card for my heirs.

For me Baseball in particular encapsulates my youth playing catch with and being coached by my Dad, a reminder of better and brighter times ahead after cold and dark winters, leverages critical thinking and employs statistics, and is a way to bring people together (which the collecting hobby greatly satisfies).

[Exhibitman]

1) What drives your collecting habits? What principles define your collection?

Let's separate collecting from investing. With the latter, all I care about is making money. I will buy just about anything at the right price.

As for my collection, it is a combo of aesthetics, rarity, player and back story. I am not one for collecting ugly cards, even valuable ones. Just doesn't do it for me. My preference is for truly rare cards, the stuff you don't see except once in a blue moon.

2) What is it about baseball that makes it easier for us to care about players that we've never seen play?

Lots and lots of literature. Very good literature. It makes the players come alive.

[raulus]

#2 is easy if you ask me. A long and storied history that is celebrated from here to next Tuesday. Lots of documentaries, books, movies, etc. Plus for the better part of a century, baseball was it. Every other sport was a silent fart compared to baseball. Not the same story today, of course, but that dominant history leads to a lot more cherishing, curating, and narrating the history of the sport.

#1 is really personal for all of us, as it's a reflection of what we're into. For me, I mostly collect the all-time greats from my favorite team. I tiptoe a little into a player, then dig in a bit, and finally I go nuts trying to find every possible issue available during their playing days.

I have a hard time trying to moralize very much about athletes, although my general rule is that I won't touch any player from my team's arch-rivals, with two exceptions. Multi-player cards that include my boys plus one of the hated ones. Or in the rare cases where I decide to collect a set, and those losers are required to complete the set. But I do it grudgingly, and every time I see my cards with those losers, I give them a big glare and question whether they really have any place in my collection.

[G1911]

1) What I liked as a kid and a teen, adjusted for cost effectiveness. I pick up 1971 Topps football lots whenever I see them cheap because I loved that set as a kid and it was the first one I built to completion. I focus on T/E boxing because that was what I decided to focus on in my teens since I could afford to build a nice collection of them but I couldn't baseball. I pick up as many poor grade T206's and T205's as I can find cheaply because those were exciting in my childhood. Topps/Bowman run for the same reasons.

2) Baseball celebrates its past beyond living memory whereas no other sport really does. Football, Basketball, Boxing, none of these make any real effort to promote their history and celebrate their lineage outside of an occasional trivia question or when politically convenient. Only Baseball has really built a culture of history, where players you or your dad don't remember seeing are held up as important and worth the knowing. Baseball makes it easy, other sports tend to require one to specifically choose to do research and educate oneself.

[jacksons]

Great post, thanks!

Lifelong baseball fan but have always been drawn more to early 1900s NY players. My Dad used to tell me stories about growing up in NYC. He used to track down players at train stations and get their autograph, back when there were three teams to follow. A train schedule was his ticket to go and see every player that came into NY to play ball. When my Dad told me about his own father who used to watch Christy Mathewson pitch, I felt a strong connection to that era through those stories. And since I never met my grandfather, who passed before I was born, I suppose I consciously started collecting photos and cards of players of his day as a way to learn as much as I could about the game then, and to see it through his eyes.

[Rhotchkiss]

First, I LOVE Harry Carson. My whole family met Harry, while dressed head to toe in Broncos stuff waiting to get John Elway’s autograph. He was so cool and friendly. What a class act

I will answer both questions together - my entire collection is old and generally rare, mostly from 1903-1927. I collect this era because of the history and Americana. These cards are antiques as much as cards. I love the add backs (crofts cocoa is my favorite add back), I love the true rarity of the cards, I love that baseball was spread during the civil war and grew into America’s pastime during this era. I love the old-time stories of these players and the game. I love the personalities and funny stories - Jennings used to bring toys and shiny things to the game to distract Waddell. I think baseball has a magic and mystique that other sports don’t have and that’s why people love these players. To me, it was just a magical time in America, and owning cards from it makes me feel a little bit apart of it.

But I collect for investment. Everything I buy is to one day sell, I expect at a good profit. For this reason I focus on specific iconic players (Cobb, Wagner, Ruth, Jackson, Young, Mathewson, Thorpe) and/or iconic sets (t206, 1914 CJ, T3, E107, D304).

Great post/query BTW

[wagnerj03]

I collect cards that have historical significance and remind me of events. So, I’ll collect all the 1919 White Sox banned players, but I’ll also get a 1974 Tommy John because that’s the year of the first surgery. I want my cards to remind me of some event, or make me lookup why I have a 1969 Curt Flood.

[Exhibitman]

This sums it up pretty well



Terence Mann: The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.

https://youtu.be/Xq3hEMUeBGQ?feature=shared

Well, I beat the drum and hold the phone
The sun came out today
We're born again, there's new grass on the field
A-roundin' third and headed for home
It's a brown-eyed handsome man
Anyone can understand the way I feel

Oh, put me in, coach
I'm ready to play today
Put me in, coach
I'm ready to play today
Look at me, I can be centerfield

Well, I spent some time in the Mudville Nine
Watching it from the bench
You know I took some lumps
When the Mighty Casey struck out
So say, "Hey Willie, tell Ty Cobb and Joe DiMaggio"
Don't say it ain't so you, know the time is now

Oh, put me in, coach
I'm ready to play today
Put me in, coach
I'm ready to play today
Look at me, I can be centerfield

You got a beat up glove, a homemade bat
And a brand new pair of shoes
You know I think it's time to give this game a ride
Just to hit the ball and touch 'em all, a moment in the sun
It's a-gone and you can tell that one goodbye

Oh, put me in, coach
I'm ready to play today
Put me in, coach
I'm ready to play today
Look at me, I can be centerfield (yeah)

Oh, put me in, coach
I'm ready to play today
Put me in, coach
I'm ready to play today
Look at me, gotta be centerfield

Or as the great Vin Scully said:

“There’s a high drive into deep left-center field, Buckner goes back… it is gone!”

“What a marvelous moment for baseball. What a marvelous moment for Atlanta and the state of Georgia. What a marvelous moment for the country and the world. A black man is getting a standing ovation in the Deep South for breaking a record of an all-time baseball idol.

“And it is a great moment for all of us, and particularly for Henry Aaron, who was met at home plate, not only by every member of the Braves, but by his father and mother. He threw his arms around his father, and as he left the home plate area, his mother came running across the grass, threw her arms around his neck, kissed him for all she was worth.

“As Aaron circled the bases, the Dodgers on the infield shook his hand, and that was a memorable moment. Aaron is being mobbed by photographers, he is holding his right hand high in the air, and for the first time in a long time, that poker face of Aaron’s shows the tremendous strain and relief of what it must have been like to live with for the last several months. It is over. At 10 minutes after nine in Atlanta, Georgia, Henry Aaron has eclipsed the mark set by Babe Ruth."

[Luke]

For me I'm not sure I have a lot of principles involved. It's just that I fell in love with the history of the game at a young age. Field of Dreams and then Eight Men Out and then my parents took me to Cooperstown and bought me an old Encyclopedia of Baseball (I didn't care that it was 10 years old because I just wanted to memorize all the stats of the Hall of Famers.

I fell in love with the T206 set and it's just been a lifelong fascination with it. I'm sure the players I collect come in a wide range of good and not-so-good men, but it's really just about the baseball history part for me. Although I did recently realize that I didn't enjoy it when I bought a Cap Anson card. The stories of him walking off the field and refusing to play a game of baseball against a team with black players on them are just too sad to me. I also wish it was easier to collect cards of Negro Leaguers. I'd love to own an Oscar Charleston card but I'd have to sell half my collection to afford one.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

First, I LOVE Harry Carson. My whole family met Harry, while dressed head to toe in Broncos stuff waiting to get John Elway’s autograph. He was so cool and friendly. What a class act

I will answer both questions together - my entire collection is old and generally rare, mostly from 1903-1927. I collect this era because of the history and Americana. These cards are antiques as much as cards. I love the add backs (crofts cocoa is my favorite add back), I love the true rarity of the cards, I love that baseball was spread during the civil war and grew into America’s pastime during this era. I love the old-time stories of these players and the game. I love the personalities and funny stories - Jennings used to bring toys and shiny things to the game to distract Waddell. I think baseball has a magic and mystique that other sports don’t have and that’s why people love these players. To me, it was just a magical time in America, and owning cards from it makes me feel a little bit apart of it.

But I collect for investment. Everything I buy is to one day sell, I expect at a good profit. For this reason I focus on specific iconic players (Cobb, Wagner, Ruth, Jackson, Young, Mathewson, Thorpe) and/or iconic sets (t206, 1914 CJ, T3, E107, D304).

Great post/query BTW

Amen on Harry Carson. I played golf with him at a fundraiser years ago and he was a really nice guy and a pretty good golfer too(low to
mid-80s).

[BobbyStrawberry]

To answer both questions together, for me it's the intersection of three different things that interest me: 1) the game itself, 2) baseball history (and American history generally), and 3) old, cool stuff.

For collecting purposes I now seem to care more about players who died before I was born than even my favorite players growing up! Or maybe I just find their cards and stories more captivating.

[nat]

1) I'm completing my childhood collection. When I was about 10 I set out to get one card of each hall of famer. Much easier now that I'm not funding it by shoveling snow and mowing lawns.

Lots of people buy whatever seems cool to them. I couldn't do this. A card needs to check off a box on the list. I've already got a Babe Ruth card, and so have zero interest in getting another.

2) Most people who like baseball, I've found, also like other sports. Not me. I doubt I could even name more than half a dozen current NFL players. So, I don't know that I have an answer to this question - I've got nothing to compare it to.

[Bcwcardz]

The 70s drives my collecting now. I’ll dabble in early 80s too. It’s when I was really young and these cards were unattainable. I love 70s baseball too. It’s something about the uniforms and the hair styles. Everything else about the decade was horrible though. I enjoy knowing and was able to see some of those players play. I’m just not into collecting players I’ve never seen play before. I can’t go too far back before I get disinterested. I cut it at about 1969. Baseball cards is all for me. I watch all sports but can’t really get into collecting the cards. I enjoy looking at older basketball cards and tried collecting but the passion just wasn’t there. I didn’t really watch it as a kid.


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[bk400]

(Thanks to Exhibitman -- I still get chills when I watch Hank Aaron's 715th homer and listen to the calls around that. And that '74 card is on my wish list.)

I find all of these responses heartening and enlightening. Baseball's connection to American history. The hobby's connection to baseball. And, in many cases, how both baseball and the hobby help us connect with our fathers, and our fathers to their fathers.

So I took the liberty to share your responses to some friends and family members (mostly decades younger than me), who are into collecting Pokemon cards. The few who had the attention span to read your responses were blown away...

[ClementeFanOh]

bk400- this is a great question, as evidenced by how thorough and serious
the responses have been. I'll add my small portion:

1) I began playing baseball in 1976, which was the same year I began
collecting cards. There are many formative memories from that time,
buoyed by an enormous amount of reading on the sport that hasn't
stopped. Unlike many folks, I didn't "move on" from collecting. I am now
able to focus on players/sets that intrigue me for any number of reasons.
I have discovered that acquiring a nice card is very fulfilling, and there's a
tangible sense of accomplishment to enjoy.

2) Your second question has been ably answered. Although I disagree with
your comment about not identifying with past players in other sports, I do
believe baseball has been in this country's consciousness in a more
pronounced way than other sports. There's something compelling
about "normal" (forgive the primitive term) guys playing a sport outside
in the sun, sans masks/"battle gear". I find it to be familiar and pleasing
at the same time- I can relate to the experience (NOT the skill level).

Trent King

[bk400]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

There's something compelling
about "normal" (forgive the primitive term) guys playing a sport outside
in the sun, sans masks/"battle gear". I find it to be familiar and pleasing
at the same time- I can relate to the experience (NOT the skill level).

Yes! I recall reading somewhere (maybe Sports Illustrated?) a long time ago that the NFL was trying to figure out how to humanize the non-QB players, most of whom you only see in full combat regalia.