An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction

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Posted By: Cobby33

If I worked at PSA and kept seeing the same cards over and over, I'd give them all 1's for posterity's sake and move on with my life. At least they'd get #'s.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Jim, I'm not crying at all. No idea why you get that idea. I would also be willing to bet that I've got a better return on my money invested into cards than you do. As I pointed out in another post, I have just a little over a $1500 out of pocket expense on my collection. You can go back to that other thread to see some of the highlights of what I have.

Here's a challenge for you, take $1500 and five years and see if you can build a collection that can come anywhere to close to mine. For some reason, I really doubt you could, mainly because you lack the knowledge to be able to do so.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: DJ

What other collectible in the world, can the very exact item be purchased for $10 or sell for as high as high as $20-30,000?

Barry hit my thoughts EXACTLY and I guess it all comes down to being old school:

Barry wrote: If I am not mistaken, one of the PSA-8 on Bruce's list was Lattimore, and if memory is correct it sold for $7700. I looked at it on ebay and I will not deny that it is a very sharp looking card. Now let's say I too wanted a Lattimore but only had $50 to spend. I could probably get a nice VG-EX that would have no creases and a bit of softness at the four corners. Using this example, it would cost me an extra $7650 to get the same exact card with the corners squared.

I'm baffled as well.

Questions about PSA8's.

-Is he a player you admire that you want to collect in that high of grade?
-Are you planning on putting together a PSA8 set?
-Couldn't you just buy a pretty nice VG-VG+ set for around $35,000 and be satisfied?
-524 cards versus say 7 or 8 "commons"?
-Do you tell people that you have the only T206 PSA8 of _____ in the world at dinner parties?
-What if another one shows up in the market place?
-What kind of increase do you expect on these cards?
-Will that common be worth $6,000 next year and $10,000 the year after that?

After all, what did the George Davis PSA8 sell for in Mastro? Something like $4,500? Davis, a Hall Of Famer, but because of the silly population he sells for less than a "common"? Makes sense to me.

My two cents...this is a fun thread and I look forward to the outcome of the challenge.

DJ

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Posted By: BcD

so many pedestrian collectors with not so tough want lists!

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Posted By: John_B_California

Here's a T206 SGC 20 Bender that is quite short s/s,

http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-T206-T-206-Chief-Bender-Portrait-HOF-SGC-20-Nice_W0QQitemZ150029366946QQihZ005QQcategoryZ57993 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And yet some fit exactly,

http://cgi.ebay.com/CHIEF-BENDER-T206-TREES-SWEET-CAPORAL-SGC-GAI-5_W0QQitemZ190031499532QQihZ009QQcategoryZ31718QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem

PSA certainly makes mistakes, and no one will get it 100% right all the time. Mastro has made mistakes (witness the Oscar statue fake this year), Lelands, no one is operating at 1,000 percent.

If it was as easy as taking an oversized card and trimming it down, I would have expected to see...

-More and more cards coming to the marketplace as prices have risen. It would be interesting to see changes in the pop report as prices have gone up. Goudey commons have exploded in value over the past 5-7 years (some up 1,000%+ and yet the numbers aren't even close to satisfying demand).

-Previously rare cards becoming easy. George C Millers, T204s, etc. That would make me pause.

-Greater discrepancies between the pop numbers of high dollar sets vs low dollar.

Consider 1933 Goudey Indian Gum vs '33 Goudey baseball. The Indian Gum set has a higher percentage of 7's, 8's and 9's as a percent of the total cards submitted (.22, .176, .0059 vs .12, .09, .0057).

'38 Horror of War vs '38 Goudey (.189, .209, .016 vs .16, .13, .007).

Some of the non sport numbers are very high ('35 Mickey Mouse, .33 of all cards submitted are an 8).

The comparisons aren't perfect. The high dollar baseball figures are more likely to be inflated by crackouts and resubmissions. Low dollar non sport cards aren't as likely to be submitted (not as much registry demand). But something to consider in this debate...

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think what this thread has shown us is that there are many different philosophies about how people like to collect. The guy who spends $7700 is likely to be happy with his purchase and the guy who spends $50 for his may be so too. It's really not a matter of who is right and who is wrong. This has and always will be a provocative topic.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Barry,

Couldn't agree more.

DJ--

In response,

1)Nobody admires Lattimore--anyone who is paying $6-$10K for a psa 8 common is trying to do the set in 8.

2)Unless there are no other examples available,high end collectors do not want off condition cards.

3)524 vs 7-8 psa 8 copmmons--certainly not--they want all 524 in psa 8

4)There is a lot of competition to want to have the best set in existense and for the popular sets they virtually all exist on the psa set registry.

%)High-end collectors of collectibles will always be paying a lot more for quality and that is what is at work here.

Jay,

Good for you. You said if I came crying about my cards going down in price. Trust me--I will not cry--at least to you,

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim- here's a question for you based on your last post: do you think that these set registry people really love the process of collecting, or has it become more of an exercise of outdoing the competition and being able to say "I am the best?" Again, I find the "I have to be the best" philosophy interesting, and that's why I think the topic is provocative. Do they like T206's or do they like feeling one up on everyone else? Not saying you have the answer, just curious to hear your opinion.

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Posted By: leon

Please email me about something......thanks for participating ... I would like to have a chat....best regards

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Barry,

I sense it is a combination.

1)First, I think these are very competitive people. They are very successful businessmen who probably got where they are in part by being so competitive. Its hard to turn it on and off. I( by no means am I putting myself in the category of collectors who will spend $10K for a T206 PSA 8 common but from time to time I find myself straying from my basic goal of completing sets in PSA 8 and better to getting ahead of a certain collector. The Set Registry will do that to you.

2)These people do love the sport and have a real passion for collecting. They are big baseball fans--I know of one guy who just did a fantasy camp that is one of the leading vintage collectors.

3)As you know, the trend in America has been the creation of a significant group of people who are extremely wealthy. Whether it is from stock options, Wall Street, the tech boom or just being a successful entrepreneur, there is a pretty good size group of people to whom $10,000 is like $10 to you and me. Some people you just cannot outbid on ebay.

4)Lastly, the whole concept of grading cards has validated cards as an investment.10-15 years ago high-end vintage cards were going for a song as collectors had completely lost confidence in whether the cards were altered in some way. While some would argue that altered cards still get through, grading has given wealthy collectors the confidence to step up and put millions into the hobby.

Jim

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Your lawn gets brown spots, your tires go flat, your garage door opener don't open the door, almost eberything in life is imperfect (and deteriorating). However, a PSA8 t206 common is virtually fault free, won't deteriorate and can be yours - maybe the only thing in your pitiful existence with quality and staying power. (I hope your kids are good, but maybe not).

And for several grand -- why not have one thing of quality? Not for snoot value, not because only the best will do, just because you can have one thing nearly perfect, or two, or more.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim- that was a well thought out response and I agree with everything you said. You would think a lot of these Type A personalities would need an outlet like collecting baseball cards to unwind and relax, but collecting for them is just an extension of their need to be the best at everything. To them, that's a 24/7 job. Everyone is different, I suppose.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

or is it thread?

I agree that the high grade set registry folks don't collect the same way as the rest of us but I wouldn't say they are of a different hobby altogether. Many of them take just as much pride and enjoy themselves just as much as I do.

One thing I do note is that the folks who do these high grade/high price sets are not the ones touting the "investment" end of things. They realize that they are collecting cards they will likely die with and just don't make a big deal of it. The investment cheerleading seems to be the purview of others. It seems to me that if you have to actively worry about whether you can resell these supposedly fantastic investments, you probably shouldn't be claiming to collect them; what you are really doing is investing in them. And that's a totally different story. I realize I am generalizing but that doesn't make me wrong. Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me.

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

Suppose the 8 Lattimore clearly did not look like an 8 (which I'm not saying is the case but just hypothesizing to raise an issue). Do you think the card would have ended up selling for any less or is the set collector mentality completely focused on buying the holder and not the card? Or, to put it another way, while it is all well and good for a well-heeled set collector to want to say he/she owns the best T206 set, would he/she still get the same enjoyment out of that if he/she really felt that a number of the cards are overgraded?

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Posted By: jay behrens

Jim, I assume from your nonresponse that you won't be takingme up on my challenge?

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Corey,

My experience is that it has some impact in certain situations but if it is a weak 8 and a pop 1 probably no impact.

Jim

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Posted By: JimB

My questions are:
1. Why does everybody care so much about what a small percentage of collectors are paying for cards that you, yourself are not interested in?
2. Why is there such a moralizing tone to the arguments? I don't see any of the subjects of this debate coming on and questioning why collectors buy lower condition cards.

JimB

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Posted By: leon

I think people like to debate this topic. It goes with the "human ego" sentiment/debate and is very interesting. I think we have also debated why folks collect lower grade cards too. Same thing...just different monies involved. For the record I do think the number on the slab, even if it's really a grade lower by most standards, has a huge impact on the value. That's kind of sad but no sin. Personally I don't collect high grade cards but if that's what folks want to do I will sit back and enjoy the game....It's all good...(and yes, it seems as though some people belittle those that do, at least to me)....best regards

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Posted By: Cobby33

I'm sure the people who drop these tremendous amounts of money on high-grade commons are smart. That's why they have so much disposable income, right? Thus, I'm sure they know that if the market softens, their "investments" will be th first to fall. Even if the overall market stays strong and there is the inevitable economic "adjustment," as with any industry, it's the high-$ product that is affected first. Personally, I don't collect to "invest" (doesn't seem like many on the Board do)- so although a downward trend would suck, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

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Posted By: bruce dorskind

While I appreciate Jim B's point, as well as the "ego" issue that Leon raises,
the simple fact is this

(1) In every collectible (at least every valuable collectible) condition matters

Look at 18th century American furniture
Coins
Tiffany Lamps
Rare watches

Items in very high grades or near perfect condition command prices of 10, or in
some cases 100 times, what lower grade items command.

A number of baseball card dealers began their career in coins. They can
certainly speak at great length about condition rarity and its concomitant
impact on prices.

Secondly, one of the great joys about living in this country is nobody can
tell you how to spend your money...whether it be 10 dollars, 10,000 dollars
or 100 million dollars.

Some people have world class card collections and live in a $600 a month apartment
other people who buy beaters drive a $80,000 car or spend their money on wine,
women and song.

It is not appropriate to condem someone because they have the means to
buy what they wish. I don't hear anyone saying that John Travolta should
not have his own 727 jet or that Bill Gates should not own a $50 million home.

God bless the brilliant minds that were able to earn tens of millions of dollars
and chose to spend a small fraction of their hard-earned wealth on rare baseball
cards.

You never hear those gentlemen belittling people who have more than they do.
They are rarely sarcastic in their comments. And the fact that someone believes
that he has built one of the most remarkable collections in the hobby on $1500
is no more a badge of honor than someone who has done so by spending 15 million.

Remember this is about baseball...and the greatest team ever- The Yankees have
always won by growing their own talent and by buying talent when they had the
opportunity. Not only are the Yankees the most successful franchise in sports
history but they are far and away the most profitable one in America.

My guess is that those lucky enough to be able to spend a million dollars a year
on cards will each do well when it comes time to sell, and they will enjoy the hobby
until they are ready to sell.

For those with more modest budgets, they too should enjoy the hobby. I am sure,
however, that there are very few collectors, regardless of what they spend, who would
not like to earn a substantial return on their investment when it comes time to sell.

I will end this message with a quote from Bill Mastro who spoke with me at great length
after I was outbid on a card I really wanted. He said, "Bruce, don't sweat it,,,remember
all it is a piece of old cardboard."

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Cobby,

None of them collect to invest--they collect because they love it.

Also doubtful that people of this net worth would change their buying habits in a downturn.

My sense is if the downturn came as the result of a recession then there would be a further widening of the gap between high and low end cards.

The one scenario I think that could cause high end cards to drop would be something which causes them to lose complete faith in the whole grading process.

Jim

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Posted By: Cobby33

Hi Jim-
Your points are well-taken, but I have to say I do know at least one person who collects high-end cards to "invest" and not because he is mad about the hobby - which drives me crazy. (I got him into Vintage because I thought he would enjoy it like I do). I can't predict how his "investment" practices will change if there is a downturn (which I hope there isn't), but I can guarantee you I won't hear the end of his bitching and moaning about how I "got him into" cards. Yes, I got him into the hobby, but not into the investment aspect of it.

I guess what most people are voicing is their dissatisfaction with (some of) the "have's" being "show-off's" and/or making certain cards out of reach for the rest of us. Sobeit, that's simple economics. I believe your assessment (subject to my caveat) that these people collect because they love it and that's great. But, with any group of people, there are always some who turn it into a "I have more/better toys than you do," which leaves a bad taste in people's mouths, especially with something that is primarily done for fun, for most.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Cobby,

Points well taken--some of it is just human nature I guess.

JIm

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Posted By: DJ

Jim,

In all honesty, is that what we are trying to do? Build a complete T206 of "8"'s and own the world's greatest T206 set?

If you pay a minimum of $4,000 for commons with some selling for around $6,000-7,000 and count the stars along the $14,000-20,000 range wouldn't you have invested roughly $3 Million on your conquest with extreme difficulties? Is it feasable in your lifetime?

As far as Lattimore goes, maybe there is a guy out there who collects Lattimore and wants an "8". People do collect after all. My highest graded T206 (most are unslabbed) is a Jake Stahl at PSA7 because he's one of my faves and an attractive and colorful card. Of course I bought it three years ago for $190.

I thought about it more after I posted and I asked myself "self, if I had all the money in the world, would that be my conquest as well?" and I said "nah". I would rather own other avenues (Yum Yum's, e107's in any condition) and go a different difficulty route. Collecting where only 10-12 examples in the world in less than appealing condition, not cards that exist in massive quantities, but limited in "pristine" condition.

Too each is own I guess.

DJ

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Posted By: JimCrandell

DJ,

To each his own.

I would love to have a complete set T206 in psa 8 and better. I would rather though have a multitude of other sets in 8 or better. I have no interest in 7s or less.

Remember, however, that some(a few) have the financial abolity and passion to do both.

Jim

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim Crandall alluded to something earlier that we all seem to already know, and that is there is an ever widening gap between the wealthy and the middle class, and the rich keep getting richer. I guess that explains the equally enormous gap between a VG-EX and a PSA-8. A NR MT card has always been more expensive than a lower grade card, but I think it is the degree of that gap that is opening people's eyes and perhaps ruffling a few feathers. Maybe there is a little class warfare going on here, which might explain why this topic touches a chord with so many people.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Bill Gates doesn't belittle anyone that has more money than him? I guess that's a true statement in a way since no one has more money than he does. And yes, Bruce, I know that jab was meant for me. I don't belittle every rich person I know, only pompous, arrogant asses like you who look down on us, how did you put it, pedestrian collectors of Net54.

I would have belittle every person on Net54 if I was someone that belittled every person richer than me.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Cobby33

John Travolta should not have a 727 jet and Bill Gates should not have a $50 million home. There, I said it.

I don't care if people pay $10K for PSA 8 commons, so long as they're humble about it. But that was an inappropriate analogy, I think. Excess is the one thing that is behind most of this society's issues, IMHO.

P.S. Not everyone who has ridiculous amounts of money has a brilliant mind. In fact, very few of them do. (Nothing personal towards Bruce or anyone, by the way).

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Posted By: JimCrandell

I thought Bruce had excellent points and I agree with him.

Jim

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Posted By: jay behrens

Cobby, so true. The truely brilliant minds are people like Stephen Hawking. Travolta entertains us and our society overpays entertainers, including athletes. Bill Gates is basically a theif having taken advantage of some legal loopholes and basically ripped off the Windows OS from Apple.

Gee, imagine that, Crandall agrees with Dorkskin

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

What a ridiculous staement.

Imagine that--Behrens playing the class warfare card for the umpteenth time.

Sad.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Please explain this class warfare thing? I don't have an issue with Leon, JC, or any of the other people on this board who far more money than me (which is pretty much everyone on this board). My issue with you and Dorkskin is that both of you are pompous, arroungant, jerks. Plain and simple. No one else on this board comes across that way. You constantly find it neccesary to tell us that if with aren't collecting the best of the best that we are throwing our money away and then try make things all better by saying "collect what you like." Which is it? Should we be buying the best of the best or collecting what we want to collect? You are both so far removed from reality it's not even funny. Or maybe it is

I'm still waiting for Mr America's Toughest Wantlist to produce something more spectacular than a PSA8 Double Play or PSA5 Delong. Talk about pedestrian. He will continue to be a running joke around here until such time that he can actually live up to self promotion. Hell, I think I'll change my wantlist to match his. I can claim the same success rate at finding cards on that list that he has.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Funny--

We know who the biggest joke is here and its you. Just continue to make a fool of yourself while others ridicule you.

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Posted By: bruce dorskind

While I will not lower myself to Mr. Behrens' level, in the interest of
honest representation, I would like to make two simple points:

I have never owned or posted a PSA Delong 5. I offered a PSA Delong 7
of Simmons for sale because I obtained several PSA 8 Delongs for my
type collection. I offered a PSA 8 Double Play for sale because I obtained
two other PSA 8 Double Plays-also for my type collection.

I also believe that we should not allow people to post who
can not speak English. I reference Mr. Behren's two most recent
postings. His comments, whilst gutter-like and inflammatory at
best, fail to acknowledge the basic rules of English grammar.

Anyone who speaks English as a first language knows that the
correct phrases are:

….. has more money than he
….. that belittled every person richer than I
…. other people on the board who have far more money than I


It is sad that Mr. Behrens has been treated so badly by this country, and that
he lives in poverty and hates so deeply. Perhaps, this "card terrorist" should
relocate to a third world country and surround himself with others who hate
America as much as he.

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Posted By: Joann

Huh? When did this become about patriotism? Also, the use of the honorific "Mr." is a pretentious affectation and should be dropped - a more casual style might be better recieved.

(Just practicing pompous language.) (hee - couldn't resist.)

Joann

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Posted By: David McDonald

So do you only want to have him banned or do you want his sorry, syntax-mangling ass deported to Guantanamo? I'm not sure Leon is that powerful.

Good pitching will always beat good hitting and vice versa.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Rest assured that understanding the intracacies of the difference between a gerund and a participle holds far greater importance to all of us, than any of the opinions of the Dorskind Group which you so charmingly inflict.

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Posted By: leon

Oh, pretty please keep me out of it. I have no power and only want to collect baseball cards and have fun. I am going to have a very stressful day but maybe can frequent our board for a few quick getaways. If people want to collect high grade or low grade does it really matter? As long as you are having fun and it's your money...do what you want. Heck, you don't even have to have fun if you don't want to. Let's do take some of the personal stuff off of the board, if we can. I think everyone has gotten their shots in. As always, if you put your name next to it, and stay with within the rules you can pretty much say what you want to. Btw, I still think the difference between a nrmt card and a nrmt-mt one is negligable and not worth the extra $1000's, but many people do. Hooray for them....it's still all good...(I am sure my grammar is not correct so let me apologize for anyone having trouble reading my drivel)..best regards

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Jay may not "write" well but how he "speaks" isn't at issue in a written posting, Bruce. If you're gonna crap on someone's grammar at least get the subject matter right.

We seem to have one of these rich vs. poor threads every few months (of course, what we really have is a rich vs. upper middle class argument since anyone who spends money on baseball cards isn't poor). Frankly, this isn't ever going to resolve nor will it ever stop. There is a perpetual clash in this country between the rich piggies at the top and the hungry piggies in the middle and bottom, and we all know who's been winning and at whose expense for the last several years. We won't solve it with cards. Is is sick that John Travolta has a 727? Would I personally like to see a radical redistribution of wealth in this country? Maybe, but this isn't the place for it to be discussed. One of the things that is most distressing is to see arguments here equating personal wealth with superior intelligence, morality, etc. For every smart guy who made money on his own I can show you dozens of widows and idiot sons living on their predecessors' investments and lots of smart but unexceptional people who were at the right place at the right time and happened to cash in on it. Money isn't about character, quality, ethics (not that anyone ever mentions ethics but I thought I'd throw it in there), morals or any other quality. You can have money or not have money and still be a jackass, as we've all seen.

Getting back to cards, personally, I can't decide if I'd prefer that the bottom fall out of the card market so I can collect solely for fun again or if I want to see it keep spiraling out of control so I can retire on the cards I own. Having to insure my cards, keep them in a vault where I can't see them, and enrobe them in plastic can be such a drag, and it bums me out to no end to watch my wife flying lazy circles over my collection waiting for the value to rise to the point where she can force a sale to pay off the mortgage (don't laugh; I know two collectors who "had" to liquidate to pay off their houses or pay for additions because the cards are just too valuable; not surprisingly both are married). If prices on rare and old cards continue to rise many collectors will be forced out of the hobby and that is s shame.

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Oh, please. Do you realize how idiotic that sounds?

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Posted By: Bobby

Jay,

Just want to point out that Bill Gates basically did rip off Apple. But in reality they both got it from Xerox, they where the true inventors of the GUI system and many other leading software developments in there research center.

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Posted By: jay behrens

To quote Bruce in an email he sent me, "...maybe if you were raised properly by servants like I was, than make you wouldn't be lacking in social graces." All you have to do is look at his last post to see the pompous ass I've speaking of. This how all his emails to have been. Very pompous. Very Condescending and as I mentioned before, he just doesn't get it, or chooses not to becuase he thinks that people respect him for acting that way. Maybe the white-breed Mayflower crowd does, but the everage American certainly doesn't.

"Card terrorist"? Does this mean I run around car bombing cards sitting on the store shelf?

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

At this posting there nearly 90 posts on this thread.......and the only rational post, in
my opinion, is Corey Shanus' post (9/17 10:21). A PSA8 or PSA 9 T206 Minor League
common such as the Lattimore example selling for mid to upper $K's is so mind-boggling
to me that I just chuckle. I am the first to champion our capitalist system; and, if you
are fortunate to have big $$'s and you want to "invest" it in neat little Tobacco cards,
then more power to you. I think it's foolish, but I also believe in....."live and let live".

My 1st T206 set (521 cards..with MAGIE) cost me less than any single Hi-Grade T206,
non-HOFer, is currently going for on ebay....this is really crazy !

A total of 90K was cited for purchases in these Hi-Grade cards, if I had $$$$'s like that
I certainly wouldn't have invested in little pieces of cardboard; but, in real estate or
diversified in the Stock Market. And, indeed I have done that and it has paid off over
the years; which as a consequence has yielded discretionary $$$$ for acquiring all
the cards I needed to complete all my numerous vintage sets.

At the risk of getting the "Jay B" treatment from respondents here.....I will caution....
it is very risky business business in "investing" $$$$ in any collectible that far exceeds
its intrinsic value. And, the fact that it is in plastic with some # assigned to it, then
raises the level of it's value is really scary....very scary.

Sorry....this is so long-winded....T-Rex TED

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Babe Ruth too was raised by someone other than his parents.

But somehow that seems regretful to me. Certainly not something which one would boast about.

Especially seeing that the product of this impersonal training meets with general distaste from our pedestrian crowd.

Simply the most recent in a parade of those with similar views. All very forgetable. But as a reminder - the predecessor was Adam J. Moraine. Maybe this one is too.

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Posted By: cmoking

Ted Z wrote: "A total of 90K was cited for purchases in these Hi-Grade cards, if I had $$$$'s like that I certainly wouldn't have invested in little pieces of cardboard; but, in real estate or diversified in the Stock Market."

Ted, those people have already made those investments. This is play money they are dealing with. 90K to them is no the same as 90K to you and me. Many of them probably have tens of millions already in real estate, the stock market, the cattle ranch, the friend's business, etc. This is likely the leftover money they can screw around with. 90K may be the core to someone's net worth, and if so, you're thoughts would be dead on IMO. But 90K can also be silly money to others.

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Posted By: bruce dorskind

Whilst I agree with many of the points that Ted makes, how can one argue that
$7000 for a 100 year old card with a population of 1 is too much when
certain cards from the 1950's sell for 40% more money in mint condition

Case in point - from Vintage Card Prices.com


1957 Topps Don Drysdale PSA 9

6/15/06Mile High$10,549.70


Which card would you rather have?


Price is and always will be a function of supply and demand. The first time a card
is offered on E Bay or by an auction house, particularly a high grade card, it tends
to command what appears to be an unreasonably high price.

However, if one tracks expenditure on E Bay of 50's and 60's cards in PSA 9
the prices for SGC 88 E-93's or PSA 8 T 206's appears to be reasonable.

What do you think abou that Ted?

Best,


Bruce

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Posted By: JimCrandell

King,

As you know $90K is a drop in the bucket compared with what they are actually spending.

There are several that are dropping over $1 million a year into high grade sports cards.

Jim

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian

People spending this kind of cash on cards don't need wealth building advice...

Similar point to King's, stated differently.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Also, to state the obvious, if one would have invested in high grade prewar cards 10-15 years ago, you would have had a substantially better return than in a diversified stock fund or real estate. Speculative collectibles can certainly have a place in a diversified investment portfolio.

Jim

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Posted By: jay behrens

15 years ago grading was essentially nonexistant. What did exist in the high grade market were a bunch of trimmed up and doctored cards to take advantage of the huge money being paid by Copeland and the bandwagon that followed him. Chances are, you would have a high percentage of cards that wouldn't grade. High grade cards always bring big moeny, it's just that it's a much safer investment today than it was 15 years ago if you buy slabbed cards. This doesn't mean that you won't get trimmed cards in a slab though.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.