NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-19-2006, 01:12 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: Dan Bretta

A couple of years ago I bought a group of 7 snapshots from a fellow board member and since that time I have discovered that they are from the first home game of the 1913 season which also happens to be the first time the New York American team was called the "Yankees". How do I know this? In one of the photos you can see them preparing the wreath presented to Frank Chance which is dated 1913....subsequently I have found a professionally taken photograph of the ceremony which shows the same wreath. Just wanted to share a little Yankee history with you all.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

I want to add that these photos are from the Polo Grounds and I'm not certain, but it may be the first time the Yanks played there also. They may have played some exhibition games there or maybe some regular season games prior to 1913...I haven't figured that out yet.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-19-2006, 01:16 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: Hal Lewis

Maybe I am missing it...

but how does this tell us that they switched to the "Yankees" for this game?

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-19-2006, 01:20 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: Dan Bretta

The photos don't tell that story, but the history books do. The NY American league team was the Highlanders from 1903-1912 and the Yankees from 1913 to present. This ceremony took place honoring Frank Chance when he was named manager of the New York club. I should add that the Yankees opened the season on the road in 1913 and these are photos from their first home game at the Polo grounds.

http://www.thebaseballpage.com/present/fp/al/nyy.htm

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-19-2006, 01:26 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: barrysloate

That's a great photo. However, it is interesting that T205's were issued in 1911 and the NY AL players are Yankees. I think there was a couple of year period where the names were used interchangeably.

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-19-2006, 01:37 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: Dan Bretta

Thanks for the info Barry. I think back in those days it was the newspapers and fans who determined the nickname of their beloved teams. The New York team as a legal entity I'm sure was "The New York Americans". I wonder who first started calling them the Yankees?

My Nebraska Cornhuskers were once the Bugeaters, Old Gold Antelopes, Rattlesnake Boys, and a few other obscure names. It wasn't until 1900 when a newspaper man named Cy Sherman would refer to them as "Cornhuskers" and that became the norm. Officially they are no longer the Cornhuskers as a few years ago they became just the "Huskers", but I'm not sure too many outside of Nebraska know that......or care, but I digress.

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-19-2006, 01:50 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: Bob

The name was changed for two reasons: the newspaper boys weren't able to conveniently use the "Highlanders" in their headlines for the story because of its length and thus started using the shorter version, Yankees and Yanks, but also because there was some racial antimosity directed toward the use of the name "Highlanders" or "Gordon's Highlanders" a legendary military group. The Irish-Americans despised the use of the term. Of course Highlanders also referred to the location of the ball park which was built on an elevated spot when Ban Johnson and the AL owners couldn't get Tammany Hall and the Giants management to let them move anywhere else. The AL club was lucky to find any spot in Manhattan to play as Johnson desperately wanted a team in NY and the Giants just as forcefully wanted to keep them out of Manhattan and anywhere near their "turf." The emotions resulted in no World Series in 1904 when the Giants refused to give Johnson and the Highlanders the upper hand, at least in their mind.

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-19-2006, 03:14 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

BOB M

Your explanation is very interesting and informative and while Pulliam, Brush, and
McGraw hated Ban Johnson, I am not sure they were against New York having
an American League team. My understanding is that they wanted the Highlanders
to win the Pennant in 1904, so then the Giants could have a chance to prove
their supremacy in New York by "demolishing" the Highlanders in the 1904 World
Series.

But, Boston cheated them of that oppurtunity by beating NYA in a very dramatic
play-off game. Then McGraw and Co. refused to play Boston (McGraw said that
Boston was unworthy) and boldly claimed the Giants were the "World Champions".

Bob.....you have to read that book I suggested to you on the 1904 Season....you
will thank me for recommending it.

T-Rex TED

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-19-2006, 03:41 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: Tom D

Ted,

What is the title of the book concerning the 1904 season? I'm curious to find any information around the July 17 Highlanders game that was played at Weidenmayer Park in Newark, NJ. I have a postcard of that ballpark in my collection and was recently contacted by a member of the Weidenmayer Brewing Company about the postcard and the history. The ballpark and the brewery are named after the same family.

My understanding is that the NYC blue laws prohibited baseball on Sundays. The laws were in place late into the teens. What I don't know is why Newark was selected for this one game. It appears to be a make up for a rain out earlier in the season, but it seems strange that the game was played in NJ rather than as part of a doubleheader. It is the only game the Yankees have hosted in NJ as far as I can tell.

Tom

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-19-2006, 05:07 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: Chris Counts

deleted

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-19-2006, 05:28 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

TOM

The book I am referring to is......"The Year They Called Off the World Series",

by Benton Stark....Avery Publishing.

This book has been out of print for several years and you might have a difficult
time finding it. Try Amazon, or do what I did and go to Border's. I have found
them
very accomodating in acquiring out-of-print books.

Good Luck.......TED Z

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-19-2006, 09:12 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: Tom D

Ted,

Thanks for the tip. I was able to find a copy on Amazon for 70 cents. Lots of used copies available.

Tom

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-20-2006, 07:45 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: Bill K

Sorry Ted, but I got the complete opposite impression of the McGraw "chicken" Giants for 1904. He and Brush had absolutely no interest in playing the Highlanders in the World Series. Why else would the two of them put together a tour for October when they should have been playing the World Series ,and have players commit hard earned money to the trip in late August/early September? That ship had sailed. The players on the Giants absolutely wanted to prove their worth against an American League team (Highlanders or Boston), but there was no way either of the two morons who headed up the Giants would do so after the comments they made publicly. They cared for nothing but themselves.

Just my take. I guess I'll have to read it again. It was such an interesting book! Everyone should read it.

Bob nailed the Highlanders/Yankees name change to a T.

Bill

Edited to add: Great Photos! Thanks for sharing.

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-20-2006, 08:14 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

It's been sometime since I read this really great book and you may well be right
about McGraw and Brush (NYG owner) not wanting to play the NYA team. Anyhow,
the New Yorkers and the NY media were most devastated when Chesbro "blew"
the play-off game vs Boston for NY with his wild pitch.

Bill, the thing that most impressed me about McGraw was his intense dislike for
Ban Johnson. And, as you know Johnson denied McGraw the chance to be the 1st
Manager of the Highlanders in 1903. And, correct me if I am wrong, but McGtraw's
vendetta at Johnson was the motivating factor which caused McGraw to refuse to
play Boston in the World Series in 1904.

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-20-2006, 08:59 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: T E

Great thread. Great photo!

The AL came into existance in part because the NL dumped 4 teams after the 1899 season, shrinking the league from 12 to 8 teams. The cities were Baltimore (John McGraw's team) Cleveland Washington and Louisville. Boston Chicago and Philly were at that point logical two-team cities. And Detroit mmade sense, as well. Louisville was witched to Milwaukee. McGraw went with Baltimore into the AL. Joining McGraw was his pitching ace from the NL, Iron Joe McGinnity. The team was not as good as the team he'd had in the NL. In 1903 McGraw jumped back to the NL mid-season, taking McGinnity and Bresnahan and several other stars with him to join the New York Giants. Johnson knew he needed to compete in NYC to make it as a Big League, so the following season Baltimore was moved to NYC.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-20-2006, 09:29 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: T E

1905? As I recall, 1903 was not officially sanctioned by the two leagues. Because it was not official, McGraw had no qualms about walking away in 1904. I think 1905 was the first year of true peace between the leagues, although it may have been the year earlier.

As to names of teams, they were not considered nearly as important as today. The Dodgers were called the Superbas at some point, the Braves were called the Bees, etc. Americans and Nationals were frequently used for two-team cities.

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-20-2006, 11:02 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: Bob

Ted- The Giants and McGraw and Brush hated Ban Johnson and also did not want to give any credence to the Amerian league, particularly a New York AL team. The Pilgrims did edge out the Highlanders when Chesbro's wild pitch let in the winning win (although that same hitter singled on the next pitch and the run would have scored anyway) but all summer and fall long, the spectre of the Highlanders playing in the World Series gave McGraw fits. A week before the season ended, Clark Griffith the HL manager gave an interview which said that "Muggsy" was afraid to play his team in the Series. This was triggered to infuriate McGraw and cause him to demand to play, but it didn't work. The Highlanders probably lost the pennant the week before the season ended when a doubleheader to have been played at Hilltop Park was moved to Boston because the Highlanders had agreed to allow Columbia and Williams College to play a football game there that day. Boston swept both games.
Brush (owner of the Giants) came up with the excuse that he was going to take many of the Giants and play in a world tour series of games (this never happened) and as a result the Giants would be unable to play in any World Series. The Giants' players were infuriated that they were losing out on their bonus money which they would have received had they played in the Series, but the players didn't stand a chance of changing Brush's mind. When Boston won the pennant, the Boston owner went so far as saying that if a World Series took place, the players would split the gate after expenses but that didn't work either. Brush and McGraw had all sorts excuses not to play-one classic was contained in a letter which was printed in the paper that the Giants had no obligation to go around playing "minor league teams from minor leagues." Incredible that they would consider the American League a "minor" league after Boston had beaten Pittsburgh in the WS the year before. Brush and McGraw said there were loads of teams from a lot of different leagues all over the South, Northeast and West that would like to play a series against them but they wouldn't.
Clearly the fear of losing to the Highlanders (and to a lesser extent the Pilgrims) coupled with their hatred of ban Johnson resulted in McGraw ducking the Series.
The league accord was signed in 1903, not 1905, by the way....

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-20-2006, 12:19 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

BOB M

Very well put....you summarized the situational factors that impacted the 1904
season very succintly.

I will add this subtle detail to the mix....in that Boston vs NYA play-off game with
"Big Bill" Dinneen vs "Happy Jack" Chesbro getting the nods for this crucial game.
Chesbro, a solid 5:9 - 180 lb pitcher despite his wild tendencies, had a season
which hasn't been equalled since with his 41-12 record in 1904.

Both pitchers were hit for 2 runs going into the fateful 9th inning. Lou Criger led
off the 9th with a hit and advanced to 3rd base. Chesbro was now facing Freddy
Parent with 2 outs and an 0-2 count. Only one pitch away from finishing Boston
in the top of the 9th.

The "cardinal rule" calls for a "waste pitch" with an 0-2 count which for sure Red
Kleinow (NYA catcher) must of called for. Well, Chesbro instead making a simple
waste pitch, throws a wild pitch to Parent and Criger scores with the game leading
and winning run. So...."there was no joy in Muddville (NYC)"....no "Subway Series ? ".
And, we'll never find out if McGraw would have succumbed to the NY populace and
the NY media to force him to play the Highlanders in the World Series ?


P.S. Guys....Besides the sheer drama and insight into the entire 1904 season that
this book very interestingly details.....it also makes all those players in the T206 set
come alive......besides the names I have already noted there are familiar names
like Ty Cobb, Wid Conroy, Patsy Dougherty, Kid Elberfeld, Clark Griffith (NYA mgr),
Matty, McGinnity, and many, many more.

T-Rex TED

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-20-2006, 12:47 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: Bob

One of those guys in the T206 set who seems to have sunk in to oblivion is Bill Dineen, whom you have mentioned. In the 1903 World Series he won 3 games and 2 were shutouts.

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-20-2006, 01:13 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: T E

I stand corrected on the Peace Accord between leagues.

Here is lengthy excerpt from Rob Neyer's article for espn.com fro July 16...

In 1902, the American and National Leagues were at war with each other. Following the 1899 season, the National League had contracted -- that's Bud Selig's word; I don't know what they called it at the time -- from 12 teams to eight, with Baltimore, Louisville, Washington, and Cleveland losing their franchises.

A number of men saw this as a business opportunity, and in 1901 the American League, under the leadership of Ban Johnson, entered into direct competition with the National League. The new circuit featured teams in three of those four ex-National League cities (with Louisville the exception), plus Milwaukee and Detroit, and also competed directly with the NL by placing new clubs in Boston, Chicago and Philadelphia.

The old Baltimore Orioles had dominated the National League in the mid-1890s, and one of the Orioles' best players was a combative third baseman named John McGraw. With the Orioles contracted out of existence in 1900, McGraw joined the St. Louis club. But he spent just one year there. In 1901, the American League lured McGraw back to Baltimore as third baseman and manager of the new franchise.

So far, so good.

However, Ban Johnson was determined to run a league largely absent of rowdyism and umpire-bullying. And as it happened, John McGraw had been, in his National League days, the acknowledged master of rowdyism and umpire-bullying. So it was probably inevitable that McGraw and Johnson would eventually butt heads.

They did coexist with some degree of peace in 1901, though. After the season, Johnson and McGraw even kept in touch about various league-related subjects, including Johnson's intention to relocate an existing franchise to New York in the not-distant future. The Orioles, who had ranked sixth in attendance in 1901, were an obvious candidate, and if they did move to New York, it was assumed (by McGraw, at least) that McGraw would continue as manager in Gotham.

But McGraw was ejected from the Orioles' first game of the 1902 season, for verbally abusing the umpire. On the first day of May, McGraw was ejected again, and this time Johnson suspended him for five days. McGraw began to entertain thoughts of deserting Johnson's American League (if he hadn't already, which evidence suggests he had), and hooking up with the National League's New York Giants.

There was, in those days, little to stop a player from simply quitting one league and joining the other; the two leagues wouldn't reach a peace agreement until 1903. However, McGraw and Giants owner Andrew Freedman weren't satisfied with something so mundane. As Charles Alexander writes in his biography of McGraw, "Instead they conceived a complicated plot to destroy the Baltimore franchise and cripple the American League."

McGraw, who had suffered a serious spike wound weeks earlier, returned to the Orioles' lineup on June 28. Throughout the game, McGraw and team captain Joe Kelley heaped abuse on umpire Tom Connally, and in the eighth inning Connally finally ordered both of them from the field and forfeited the game to Boston. Johnson immediately suspended McGraw and Kelley for an indefinite period of time (as they undoubtedly knew he would).

On July 8, the Orioles released McGraw and paid him $6,500 for his stock holdings. That evening, McGraw told reporters that he would shortly take up his new position as manager of the New York Giants.

A week later, the situation became serious, as Freedman went for the jugular. On July 16, an agent of Freedman's named Joseph C. France bought a majority of the Orioles stock from a sympathetic shareholder (i.e. co-conspirator), thus making Freedman, in effect, the owner of both the Giants and the Orioles (and you think baseball's screwed up today).

He could take whichever players he wanted for the Giants, dispense others to his friends in the National League, and, as a happy side effect, turn one of the American League's eight franchises into a complete joke. Freedman immediately devastated the Orioles' roster, releasing six players. Four of them signed with his (and McGraw's) Giants, and two of them became Reds (Cincinnati's owner headed the National League). The Orioles had been carrying only 14 players on the roster, so all these machinations left the club with somewhere between five and seven players (accounts differ).

And that's where Freedman erred.

Without enough players to field a team, Baltimore had to forfeit its July 17 game against St. Louis, and that gave Ban Johnson his chance. Operating under the authority of the American League's constitution, Johnson declared the franchise vacant, took control for the League, and quickly stocked the roster with players donated from other League teams. The Orioles went into the tank -- after a decent start, they finished at 50-88 -- but disaster had been averted, and the franchise did move to New York for the 1903 season. That New York franchise would, of course, eventually become the most successful franchise in American sports (though it took them 20 years to surpass McGraw's Giants).

How might things have been different if McGraw and Freedman hadn't staged their temporary coup? Three of Baltimore's lost players became great, at least for a time, and could have made a huge difference in the fortunes of the New York Americans...

Sources for this article include Charles C. Alexander's John McGraw (Viking, 1988), Reach's Official Baseball Guide, 1903 and Fred Lieb's The Baltimore Orioles (G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1955).

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-20-2006, 01:21 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: T E

Official NY Yankees MLB web site gives this explanation for name change, backing OP...

April: The Highlanders are officially renamed the "Yankees" after moving to the Polo Grounds, home of the National League's New York Giants.

So, from Bob's earlier explanation, the move may have presented an opportune time for the change...

Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-20-2006, 10:08 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Interesting Snapshot Photos of first "Yankees" Game

Posted By: George Altemose

The term "Yankees" was certainly used prior to 1913. It is seen on T205 cards. And in Glenn Stout's excellent book "Yankees Century," it is stated that "Yankees" was widely used, particularly by the New York Evening Journal, and had become the name of choice among fans.

1904 was a great season, but it did not end with a playoff game. The last five games were scheduled between the Yankees (or Highlanders) and Boston. And Boston won the pennant by 1.5 games.

Reply With Quote
Reply




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale 2 Don Larsen NY YANKEES Signed Photos of "The Perfect Game" PRICE REDUCED Archive Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T 0 06-14-2008 06:29 PM
Interesting 1890 Players League "schedule." Thoughts? Archive Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 2 04-26-2008 05:47 AM
1928 R315 - "Lou" Gehrig HOF - YANKEES - SGC 70 Archive Ebay, Auction and other Venues Announcement- B/S/T 0 07-15-2007 10:11 PM
Interesting article on the "10 Most Desirable Cards" on ESPN.com Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 5 07-31-2006 05:42 AM
"Interesting" N172 Dan Brouthers I purchased off eBay Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 14 06-28-2004 05:59 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:42 PM.


ebay GSB