Novice E121 Question

[Bliggity]

I see there are about 122 different cards in the E121 Series of 80 set (just counting unique images, not caption variations or back variations) and about 127 different cards in the E121 Series of 120 set.

How much overlap is there between the two sets? In other words, if I wanted to build a combined set of 80s/120s with one example of each picture, how many cards am I looking at total?

Thanks in advance!

[brianp-beme]

Interesting question. With a quick count I came up with 189 different images between the two sets, or 200 if you count the 11 additional different images as seen in the Koester Bread issue. New, different E121's are still popping up, as at least a couple have made their appearance (one is a completely unique Lee Meadows card) in just the last 3 to 4 years.

I could be slightly incorrect on the total. A Net54'er who just posted in the BST is collecting the E121 set in just this way...perhaps you can inquire with him.

Brian

[obcbobd]

Dan

I put together a spreadsheet of E121 cards based on information in Lew Lipsett's Enclycopedia. I too did not look at minor variations. I come up with the following. 121 in series of 80, 127 in series of 120, 75 in both and 173 total different poses. If you (or anyone) wants, I can send the spreadsheet or even a scan of the pages from Lipsett's Encyclopedia that it was based upon. Just email be at obcbobd "et" gmail "dot" com

thanks

Bob

[Bliggity]

Thanks Brian & Bob!

Bob, I would love to see the spreadsheet, I'll email you now. I'd been going off of the checklists in the Standard Catalog, but they don't always specify the poses, and I wasn't able to find photo verification online for some of them.

[brianp-beme]

Ok, after looking closer at my lists and eliminating some cards that share the same photo, I came up with 186 different images in the shared E121-80, E121-120 and Koester Bread pool. I have denoted the 11 Koester Bread cards with an asterisk. If you throw out all of these Koester Bread only cards, then the total becomes 175.

Let me know if I made any errors.

Brian


Chas. "Babe" Adams
G.C. Alexander (arms above head)
Grover Alexander (arm extended)
Jim Bagby
J. Franklin Baker/Frank Baker
Dave Bancroft (batting)
Dave Bancroft (fielding)
Turner Barber
Jesse Barnes *
Howard Berry *
Carlson L. Bigbee/L. Bigbee
Ping Bodie
Ed Brown *
Jesse Burkett *
George Burns (Cleveland)
Geo. J. Burns (New York)
"Bullet Joe" Bush
Owen Bush
Max Carey (batting)
Max Carey (hands on hips)
Cecil Causey
Ty Cobb (batting)
Ty Cobb (throwing, face front)
Ty Cobb (throwing, face turned)
Eddie Collins
"Rip" Collins
A. Wilbur Cooper
Stanley Coveleskie
"Bill" Cunningham *
Dave Danforth
Jake Daubert
George Dauss
"Dixie" Davis
Charles Deal (dark uniform)
Charles Deal (light uniform)
Lou DeVormer
William Doak
Bill Donovan
Phil Douglas
Johnny Evers
Urban Faber (dark uniform)
Urban Faber (light uniform)
Ira Falgstead (actually Flagstead)
Bib Falk
Alex Ferguson *
Wm. Fewster
Max Flack
Eddie Foster
Frank Frisch
W.L. Gardner
Alexander Gaston
E.P. Gharrity
George Gibson
Chas. "Whitey" Glazner
"Kid" Gleason
"Mike" Gonzalez
Hank Gowdy
John Graney
Tom Griffith
Chas. Grimm
Heinie Groh (Cincinnati/New York)
Jesse Haines
Harry Harper
"Chicken" Hawkes *
Harry Heilmann (with bat)
Harry Heilman (running)
Clarence Hodge
Fred Hoffman *
Walter Holke (portrait)
Walter Holke (throwing)
Charles Hollacher/Hollocher
Harry Hooper (large photo - no shed)
Harry Hooper (small photo - shed)
Roger Hornsby
Waite Hoyt
Miller Huggins
Wm. C. Jacobson
Hugh Jennings
Walter Johnson (hands at chest)
Walter Johnson (throwing)
James Johnston
Joe Judge (batting)
Joe Judge (catching)
George Kelly
Dick Kerr
P.J. Kilduff
Bill Killefer/Killifer (bat)
Bill Killifer (throwing)
John Lavan
"Nemo" Leibold
Duffy Lewis
Walter Mails
Al Mamaux
"Rabbit" Maranville
Elwood Martin
Carl May/Mays (large)
Carl Mays (small)
John J. McGraw (portrait)
John McGraw (standing)
Jack McInnis (Boston/Cleveland)
M.J. McNally
Lee Meadows (only one known)
Emil Meusel
R. Meusel
Clyde Milan
Elmer Miller
Otto Miller
John Mitchell *
Guy Morton
Johnny Mostil
Eddie Mulligan
Eddie Murphy
Hy/"Hy" Myers
A.E. Neale
Arthur Nehf
Leslie Nunamaker
Joe Oeschger
Chas. O'Leary (only one E121 known, otherwise just Koester)
Steve O'Neill
Roger Peckinbaugh/Peckinpaugh
Jeff Pfeffer (Brooklyn/St. Louis)
William Piercy *
Walter Pipp
D.B. Pratt
Jack Quinn
John Rawlings
E.C./E.S Rice
Eppa J. Rixey (throwing, leg up)
Eppa Rixey Jr. (throwing, feet down)
Wilbert Robinson
Tom Rogers
Ed Rommel/Rounnel
Robert Roth
Ed Roush
"Muddy" Ruel
Walter Ruether
"Babe" Ruth (holding ball)
"Babe" Ruth (holding bird)
"Babe" Ruth (photo montage)
Babe/"Babe"/George Ruth (throwing)
Bill Ryan
"Slim" Sallee (throwing - no ball)
"Slim" Sallee (throwing - with ball)
Ray Schalk (batting)
Ray Schalk (catching)
Wally/Walter Schang
Ferd Schupp
Everett Scott (Boston/New York)
Hank Severeid
Joe Sewell
Robert Shawkey
Pat/"Pat" Shea
Earl Sheely
Urban Shocker
George Sisler (batting)
George Sisler (throwing)
Earl Smith
Elmer Smith
Frank Snyder
Bill Southworth
Tris Speaker (large)
Tris Speaker (small)
Chas. Stengel (portrait New York) *
Milton/Milton J. Stock
Amos Strunk
Zeb Terry
Chester Thomas
Fred Toney (foot raised, with trees)
Fred Toney (both feet down, no trees)
George Topocer/Toporcer
George Tyler
Jim Vaughn (plain uniform)
Jim Vaughn (striped uniform)
Bob Veach (arms folded)
Bob Veach (arms raised)
Oscar Vitt
Curtis Walker
W. Wambsganss
Aaron Ward
Zach Wheat
George Whitted (Brooklyn/Pittsburgh)
Fred Williams
Ivy B. Wingo
Joe Wood
"Pep" Young
Ross Young

[obcbobd]

Brian

I checked your list with my own, which is mainly based on Lew Lipset's and have the following discrepancies.

First, I only see eight cards with *.

I don't have Bill Cunningham, Fred Hoffman or "Chicken" Hawkes as E121s. Lipset shows these as a W575 only, and the are not in my SCD (2011). Or should these also have an *?

I only have a single Harry Hooper, Lipset does not mention the shed variation, nor does my SCD.

You are missing Babe Ruth (photo montage) (HOF)

thanks

Bob

[rhettyeakley]

Bob,

You are correct about those three cards being only in Koester's. They should have an asterisk.

The Ruth should probably have read "holding bat/photo montage" not holding ball.

The Hooper variation is the same photo just different size of projection (on one you can see a small building or something off to the left side that isn't present in the other version.) This variation had never been documented prior to me bringing it up here on the forum. As far as whether it is a new image is debatable, similar to the two different sizes of the Carl Mays image. That being said I seem to remember a slight size change between the Wally Schang cards from the Series of 80 and 120 (I think his hand is cropped in one version or something along those lines). Again, same image just different size, just not as extreme as the Tris Speaker for example.

[rhettyeakley]

Here is a copy of the two Hoopers...

[brianp-beme]

Good spotting Bob and Rhett on the Koester Bread only cards...I will update the list above, and will repair the Ruth listing to make it more photo montage-y.

Rhett's example of the Hooper 'full of shed' variation is the only one I have seen, and is just another example of why the E121 set (especially the Series of 80) is one heckuva set for those who like their card collecting to be full of surprises.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

The Ruth holding ball entry is correct, but just noticed on my list that I had left off the Ruth photo montage card entirely, which I corrected on the list.

That makes it 175 different images between the sets, 186 if you count the Koesters (always appropriate, for example, when setting down a drink upon the coffee table). I updated the prior entry to reflect this amount as well.

Brian

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Here is a copy of the two Hoopers...

Nice side by side comparison. I never noticed that.