Trust me, I don't mean to slam anyone, especially a hobby giant

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Posted By: Ed McCollum

but the grade listed on this card seems way, way out of line with the scan shown.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-11-T206-T-206-BOB-SPADE-REDS-GD-VG-BACK_W0QQitemZ330101470341QQihZ014QQcategoryZ86840 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Agree or disagree?

Thanks.

(Frank, still looking for one to trade for yours-Ed)

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Posted By: B.C.Daniels

is gradable?

BcD

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Posted By: CN

I agree with you as far as the described grade goes. With the back damage it for grade a 1 or a 2. Remember when it comes to the oldtimers grading can be an adventure thats why looking at the scan is important. CN

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Posted By: Steve Murray

I agree. 1, maybe a 2 on a lucky day.

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Posted By: Brian E.

I don't think "Good" is out of line

Brian E.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Guys, it's not as if Kit didn't make the card's flaws abundantly clear.

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Posted By: dennis

the slabbers are tougher on putting a grade on a card.thats why people pay them $$$ and thats why they have become tougher on giving out grades in the last few years. but, a card is what it is,look at it and decide what you think of it and don't depend on what the label or the seller says. be your own judge!

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I dont see a huge problem with the grade that it would call for a thread about it. I would grade the card GD,and he says GD-VG,whats the big deal,thats half a grade? I have graded cards that are at least 2 grades off and one graded a 5 thats no better than this card. Plus with the fact theres a scan hes not hiding anything. I really dont think a thread is needed for a card that is at most 1 full grade off in the description,especially when ebay is littered with people who cant grade to save their lives

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Posted By: DR

What am I missing? The card is POOR at best. Being generous would be FAIR. A card is NOT Good to Very Good with the larger paper loss. This card is OVER GRADED by 2 - 3 grades and not a good way to introduce new collectors into the hobby. I do not buy the claim old timers = old grading standards. I am sure Kit Young and the other wannabees do not over grade 2 - 3 grades when buying cards and are trying to take advantage and/or lie to collectors. These fat cats may have been an asset to the hobby in the past but are now simply a liability. I am not just singling out Kit Young and could name many more. What a farce! The old system and grading standards are just that and the fact some dealers are unwilling to change creates a black eye for the hobby serving only themselves without any regard for the future of the hobby. To me, these dealers are has beens.

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Good point DR. We all know that this one is overgraded, but the new collector will sure be disappointed when this comes back a PSA 1. Not good for the hobby.

Frank

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Posted By: Ed McCollum

Yes, you can see the flaws. Yes, if you were to send it to a grading service, you would probably get a 1 or a 10 for it. But maybe more of my question was even the price on his eBay store listing.

Quite often, I use Trae's estimator, which is a valuable resource, and I thank him for having it out there for us to use. But using the estimator for a price guideline, it should be a VG/EX to come to the price he (Kit) is asking. It is truly not close to that.

Yes, I know there are flaws to be seen; yes, he may be old school; yes, maybe the estimator is not up to date with the daily fluctuations in prices someone is willing to pay. But having been on the look out for a Spade for several months, this one just caught my eye as having several things that didn't add up to either the billing it received or the price being asked for it.

No disrespect to Kit or to Trae.

Ed

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Posted By: dennis

so lets start a thread about every over graded over priced card?

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Posted By: Brian E.

I would tend to disagree about the card being "poor". Yes there is considerable paper loss on the reverse, but the card is very far from being skinned. On a scale on 1-10 would you really give it a "1"? I surely wouldn't.

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Posted By: JimB

I have recently received two different cards with paper loss on the back from SGC and both were graded SGC 40. Granted they did not have that much paper loss, but...
JimB

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Posted By: Brad

SGC40 with paper loss ? I'd like to See that!

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Posted By: john/z28jd

How could a card graded gd/vg be overgraded by 2 or 3 grades? Thats not possible since vg itself is only 2 grades higher than poor? Last time i checked and this is by going that you said it could be fair,a fair card is graded a 20 and a gd/vg card would grade a 30. This card at worst would grade Fair and could pass for Good in some cases,thats not a reason to start a thread because you can find tons of card more than one grade overgraded by both dealers and grading companies

I have an Old Judge card with 2 small spots of paper loss on front,a small stain and a faded image as well as a couple small spots on the back and its graded a 5. I paid like it was a 5 because i needed the card. This card on the other hand has scans and wouldnt end for more than $40 on its best day as a real gd/vg. Yet someone who sees the scans can make their own judgement and decide what they want to pay and at worst case if theyre influenced by the grade alone and not their own thoughts they might spend $18 too much. BFD!

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Posted By: Eric B

I don't think he was saying the back is Gd-VG, it cleary isn't. But rather he was typing.....GD-VG Back Damage....but ran out of space and didn't notice it was cut off.

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Posted By: rand

I find this to be a very hot subject for discussion. It so happens this example is Kit's card...but it does make a strong statement that many dealers with raw cards overstate the quality. I did buy 6 raw '33 goudeys from Kit 2 years ago all stating Ex+, i even called and spoke about the cards to make sure, i bought all 6, when they arrived maybe the best card was an SGC 50/4.. i sent them all back for a refund, I never bought another card from him again. I think its really the case of over grading and just waiting for an uneducated buyer to just pay the price. It never ceases to amaze me when they sell highend cards $500+ and wont get them graded...usually because the grading will actually be less than their assessment. I dont know about other board members..but i have been heart broken to many times buying raw cards from "Reputable" people and not getting what i was expecting. sometimes the scans just don't show enough.

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Posted By: Fred C

Does anybody really think that Kit Young inspects every card and verifies every grade provided for the cards? Kit has an operation with several employees. I think his return policy is supposed to be liberal so if you find you don't like the card you can probably return it. I know it's a pain but you also have the option to not buy from Kit Young Cards again.

I'm sure that if enough people ridiculed the grading of the cards from Kit he might speak to his staff but something else to remember is that there are a few other big time dealers which people have said are fairly liberal with the grades so maybe Kit Young Cards is right in line with those other dealers in the way of grading.

The nice part about the USA is that it's a free country and we all have the right to chose with whom we do business.

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Posted By: leon

The big enough scans of front and back showed enough for each person to make their own mind up.......Make your own decision on the grade......

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Posted By: Mike Snyder

I see cards like this all the time. I ignore them and consequently ONLY buy graded cards.
At least the seller is not hiding anything with the pictures.
Even so, in the past I have bought seemingly perfect cards that grade low becuase of an "insignificant" wrinkle.

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Posted By: Mike

It doesn't matter what potential grade someone gives to a card. Make up your own mind. If you like, or need it, buy it. If you don't like it, or don't need it, don't buy it. I'm uncertain why this thread is necessary. The card isn't rare, if someone waits a bit, a another one will show up in a day or two. Then consider whether that one is good enough, or priced appropriately.

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Posted By: joe

I would like the so-called oldtimers to start grading cards a little better, even their employees. Even if they have a liberal return policy, it's to much trouble to buy and return cards. They are grading these cards at the higher grade to get more money. By the way I am an old timer.


joe

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