NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-09-2018, 10:59 AM
Throttlesteer Throttlesteer is offline
Anson
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 830
Default Authentic the Artist's Grade

Lately there's been a ton of debate about TPGs competing to assume the title of toughest grader. A lot of sharp-looking "Authentic" cards have made their way into recent auctions. It dawned on me, if a card has already been altered or trimmed, the owner has carte blanche to clean, color, etc..to hide any flaws they want. Sure, altered cards will never fetch number-graded values. But, a seemingly clean-looking Authentic card will certainly outsell a more worn one.

There really isn't any penalty or qualifier for altered cards. So, buying the card vs. the holder really comes down to presentation (if online). You don't have any guarantee to the amount someone has tampered with the card.
__________________
An$on Lyt!e
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-09-2018, 12:41 PM
luciobar1980's Avatar
luciobar1980 luciobar1980 is offline
Lucio Barbarino
Lu.cio Barb.arino
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,039
Default

That's true. Is SGC implementing more thorough Grader's Notes? Gonna call them on Monday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttlesteer View Post
Lately there's been a ton of debate about TPGs competing to assume the title of toughest grader. A lot of sharp-looking "Authentic" cards have made their way into recent auctions. It dawned on me, if a card has already been altered or trimmed, the owner has carte blanche to clean, color, etc..to hide any flaws they want. Sure, altered cards will never fetch number-graded values. But, a seemingly clean-looking Authentic card will certainly outsell a more worn one.

There really isn't any penalty or qualifier for altered cards. So, buying the card vs. the holder really comes down to presentation (if online). You don't have any guarantee to the amount someone has tampered with the card.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-09-2018, 07:16 PM
drcy's Avatar
drcy drcy is offline
David Ru.dd Cycl.eback
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,466
Default

The amount and type of restoration is relevant to judgment and valuation. Not all restoration (in amount and type) is viewed the same. In fact, if a card (or anything) is too restored, it may not be considered an original, or entirely original, item.

It just says that the AUTH grade is one indicator and doesn't, and doesn't proport, to say everything. Should an AUTH grade say more-- such as the type and amount of restoration or alteration, or why it wasn't graded? That's an argument. On the other hand, the AUTH grade simply says the card is authentic-- and in fact some unaltered cards do get that grade.

Last edited by drcy; 09-09-2018 at 07:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-09-2018, 07:52 PM
luciobar1980's Avatar
luciobar1980 luciobar1980 is offline
Lucio Barbarino
Lu.cio Barb.arino
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,039
Default

This is what I've always been confused about. When, assuming a card is NOT altered, is a card an A vs a 1?? If it's not altered why wouldn't it just be a 1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drcy View Post
The amount and type of restoration is relevant to judgment and valuation. Not all restoration (in amount and type) is viewed the same. In fact, if a card (or anything) is too restored, it may not be considered an original, or entirely original, item.

It just says that the AUTH grade is one indicator and doesn't, and doesn't proport, to say everything. Should an AUTH grade say more-- such as the type and amount of restoration or alteration, or why it wasn't graded? That's an argument. On the other hand, the AUTH grade simply says the card is authentic-- and in fact some unaltered cards do get that grade.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-09-2018, 07:52 PM
GasHouseGang's Avatar
GasHouseGang GasHouseGang is offline
David M.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: S. California
Posts: 2,854
Default

I always thought the grader should add “trimmed”,“color added”, etc. Then the collector would at least know what the grader saw and based his grade on.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-09-2018, 07:58 PM
luciobar1980's Avatar
luciobar1980 luciobar1980 is offline
Lucio Barbarino
Lu.cio Barb.arino
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,039
Default

Definitely! I'm surprised. Card collecting is older than comic book collecting, but CGC, on their labels, always has a list of what alterations have been done to a comic. How is this not a thing with the TPGs in card collecting?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GasHouseGang View Post
I always thought the grader should add “trimmed”,“color added”, etc. Then the collector would at least know what the grader saw and based his grade on.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-13-2018, 11:06 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,196
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by luciobar1980 View Post
Definitely! I'm surprised. Card collecting is older than comic book collecting, but CGC, on their labels, always has a list of what alterations have been done to a comic. How is this not a thing with the TPGs in card collecting?
Subgrades would be a great plus if TPGs would do it. I know Beckett has done it before, if not now.
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-13-2018, 12:41 PM
Stampsfan's Avatar
Stampsfan Stampsfan is offline
Bob Davies
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,118
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GasHouseGang View Post
I always thought the grader should add “trimmed”,“color added”, etc. Then the collector would at least know what the grader saw and based his grade on.
+1. Many times in the item description, the Auction House is guessing as to what the alteration actually is.
__________________
Successful transactions on Net54 with balltrash, greenmonster66; Peter_Spaeth; robw1959; Stetson_1883; boxcar18; Blackie
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-13-2018, 12:47 PM
bounce bounce is offline
DR
David R@tliff
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 603
Default

in some instances, like with autographed cards, the grading request is for the autograph and just noting that the card is authentic.

i don't think in that instance they look to the card for alterations for any sort?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-14-2018, 08:01 AM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 8,083
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drcy View Post
The amount and type of restoration is relevant to judgment and valuation. Not all restoration (in amount and type) is viewed the same. In fact, if a card (or anything) is too restored, it may not be considered an original, or entirely original, item.

It just says that the AUTH grade is one indicator and doesn't, and doesn't proport, to say everything. Should an AUTH grade say more-- such as the type and amount of restoration or alteration, or why it wasn't graded? That's an argument. On the other hand, the AUTH grade simply says the card is authentic-- and in fact some unaltered cards do get that grade.

Yes, non-altered stuff can get an "A". If I hadn't checked the "don't slab as "A" " choice this one would have. The cuts top and bottom are very rough, so many collectors who aren't up on details would assume trimming.


I think they missed the boat on this one, they printed the flip, why not slab with it as miscut enough to not get a number?


I really like how they include the note if it won't grade and they're not slabbing it as an A.

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-14-2018, 12:41 PM
drcy's Avatar
drcy drcy is offline
David Ru.dd Cycl.eback
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,466
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bounce View Post
in some instances, like with autographed cards, the grading request is for the autograph and just noting that the card is authentic.

i don't think in that instance they look to the card for alterations for any sort?
In fact, in some cases these days (blue flip versus red flip) they don't even authenticate the card, but just the autograph. The label merely says 'trading card.'

Last edited by drcy; 09-14-2018 at 12:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Grade of Authentic tonyo Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 17 09-28-2009 07:48 PM
SGC Grade of A (Authentic) ? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 15 12-09-2007 06:16 PM
authentic grade Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 15 12-01-2007 01:31 AM
PSA, SGC, GAI - The Authentic Grade Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 14 09-23-2007 07:31 PM
Slightly O/T - Beckett Grade of Authentic vs. Number Grade Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 4 08-26-2006 09:05 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:05 AM.


ebay GSB