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  #151  
Old 10-21-2013, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Attachment 118855

You're assuming that just because the scans are brighter, he's adjusting the settings. This may not be so. I work for an engineering company and I use a lot of different reproduction equipment. One scanner I use very often is designed to enhance colors (mostly reds and blues) and minimize black (factory settings). We mark-up vendor drawings with red and blue pencils and this scanner enhances our marks and comments so when we send them back to the vendor, our marks really stand out for easy identification.

My point is that you have no idea what kind of scanner he is using and are only assuming that he is adjusting the colors because of the brightness of the scans. If you like, I can scan a card with my scanner at work and then scan the same card with my scanner at home and you will see a noticeable difference in the brightness of the two cards (using only factory settings on each).
Okay, David, please read Brent's post. Brent himself said that he was adjusting the settings.
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  #152  
Old 10-21-2013, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyseymour View Post
Okay, David, please read Brent's post. Brent himself said that he was adjusting the settings.
He did say that and in any event it's beside the point. When you need goggles to protect your eyes from scans, there is a problem even if that is what the factory settings do.
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  #153  
Old 10-21-2013, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyseymour View Post
Okay, David, please read Brent's post. Brent himself said that he was adjusting the settings.
As I said earlier, I haven't read the thread, but I did go back and look for Brent's post. Here's what I saw (copied and pasted directly from his statement).

Just to confirm, our scans are never enhanced artificially.

Where do you read that he said that he was adjusting the settings?
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  #154  
Old 10-21-2013, 05:43 PM
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And just to clarify, adjusting the scanner settings doesn't necessarily mean adjusting the color. It can also mean adjusting the size, the output format (PDF, JPEG), etc.
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  #155  
Old 10-21-2013, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Brent Huigens View Post
Frankly, this is the first time we have heard anybody suggest our scans were misleading. On that note, I can confirm that we've recently introduced some new scanners and that our settings have fluctuated somewhat over the last 90 days.
Here it is... it is located in the paragraph above what you quoted.
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  #156  
Old 10-21-2013, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
It can also mean adjusting the size, the output format (PDF, JPEG), etc.
That wouldn't make any sense within the context of what is being discussed. Come on, Dave. You are better than that.
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  #157  
Old 10-21-2013, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyseymour View Post
Here it is... it is located in the paragraph above what you quoted.
It's funny how two people can read the exact same thing and get two different meanings. He said "I can confirm that we've recently introduced some new scanners and that our settings have fluctuated somewhat over the last 90 days."

He said the settings fluctuated. I have no idea what that means, but maybe he meant the settings were different from the old scanners to the new scanners. Who knows? But he didn't say it was anything they did purposely. You're conveniently overlooking the part where he says "Just to confirm, our scans are never enhanced artificially."

Once again, I don't know Brent. As far as I can remember, I don't think I've ever even made a purchase from him. My only point is that settings are different from scanner to scanner and you can scan the same card with two different scanners using the factory settings and they will probably appear differently.
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  #158  
Old 10-21-2013, 06:13 PM
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He meant that he bought new scanners and has been adjusting the settings on the new scanners to get the best scan. That much should be obvious to anyone. It is the only thing that makes any sense within the context of the discussion.
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  #159  
Old 10-21-2013, 06:13 PM
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As we say in law, the thing speaks for itself.
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  #160  
Old 10-21-2013, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyseymour View Post
He meant that he bought new scanners and has been adjusting the settings on the new scanners to get the best scan. That much should be obvious to anyone. It is the only thing that makes any sense within the context of the discussion.
Are you really this hard headed? Okay, if that's what he meant, then what did he mean by "Just to confirm, our scans are never enhanced artificially."
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  #161  
Old 10-21-2013, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Are you really this hard headed? Okay, if that's what he meant, then what did he mean by "Just to confirm, our scans are never enhanced artificially."
He meant, "I don't want to get in trouble for this."
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  #162  
Old 10-21-2013, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyseymour View Post
He meant, "I don't want to get in trouble for this."
Ahhh, thanks for the clarification.

So, that makes him a liar too, right? Because first, according to your interpretation, he said that he did adjust the settings, but then he contradicted himself and said that he didn't adjust the settings.

This Brent guy sounds like a bad dude. I'll steer clear. Thanks for the warning.
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  #163  
Old 10-21-2013, 06:29 PM
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Not sure I follow this exchange, but he certainly lied about never having heard of any issues with his scans prior to this thread.
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  #164  
Old 10-21-2013, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Not sure I follow this exchange, but he certainly lied about never having heard of any issues with his scans prior to this thread.
Peter, he may have. I don't know. Just glancing through the thread (again, I'm late to the party - didn't read it all), there also seems to be some accusations of allowing shill bidding too.

Right or wrong though, you do have to give him some credit. At least he came on here to address the accusations. That's a lot more than we can say about Tricky Ricky Probstein.

Take care!
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  #165  
Old 10-21-2013, 06:35 PM
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Can someone PLEASE show me an example of an unrealistic scan from the most recent auction. Peter posted an old scan, I would like to see a recent one. From what I have noticed (and from Brent has said) the issue you has been fixed.
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  #166  
Old 10-21-2013, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Peter, he may have. I don't know. Just glancing through the thread (again, I'm late to the party - didn't read it all), there also seems to be some accusations of allowing shill bidding too.

Right or wrong though, you do have to give him some credit. At least he came on here to address the accusations. That's a lot more than we can say about Tricky Ricky Probstein.

Take care!
76, then 78. And I give no credit for coming on and lying, no. And at one point Rick came on too, if memory serves.
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  #167  
Old 10-21-2013, 06:43 PM
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76, then 78.
Oh!
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  #168  
Old 10-21-2013, 06:59 PM
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It helps if you read the thread first before starting your arguments.
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  #169  
Old 10-21-2013, 07:23 PM
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Brent came onto the thread, lied, and left.
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  #170  
Old 10-21-2013, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyseymour View Post
Anyone with a strong knowledge of technology will realize that there is no need to adjust the scanner settings at all.

Look at Just Collect, for instance. They have very nice scans of their OJ's on ebay right now, and you can tell that the hue is not adjusted, because if you look at the sgc flips, they show as a rich, dark green that they are in real life. That's one barometer for telling that the scanner settings have not been adjusted to enhance the image of the card. In some other auction houses, those very same flips would show up a light, bright green.

So it doesn't really have to do with any attempt realism - it has to do with enhancing an image to make a bidder believe that the card is brighter, cleaner, and more attractive than it is in real life in order to proffer a better price on the card.
You are wrong.
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  #171  
Old 10-21-2013, 07:36 PM
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Brent came onto the thread, lied, and left.
Veni, mentiri, abdici, or something like that.
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  #172  
Old 10-21-2013, 07:40 PM
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You are wrong.
You are from outer space. Just ask the Saco River guy.
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  #173  
Old 10-21-2013, 07:40 PM
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It helps if you read the thread first before starting your arguments.
You're right, I didn't read the entire thread. I picked up from post 142 where you inferred that a scan should never be adjusted. You're were wrong and two other people have also since told you that you are wrong. There are sometimes when scans should be adjusted to represent the actual card. My point was, and I'll repeat it again because you obviously keep missing it, is that you can take the same card, scan it with two different scanners using the factory settings, and they'll still appear differently. I have forgotten more about scanners than you'll ever know.
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  #174  
Old 10-21-2013, 07:41 PM
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veni, mentiri, abdici, or something like that.
lololololol
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  #175  
Old 10-21-2013, 07:43 PM
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Abusus non tollit usum.
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  #176  
Old 10-21-2013, 07:45 PM
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Are you some kind of idiot? Seriously? Do you know how many people who sell cards or memorabilia for a living have been subpoenaed to grand juries? Who have been indicted? Who have plead guilty to felonies? Who have been successfully sued for fraud? Do you know how much of this has occurred due to this board?
Yes Jeff, he is an idiot!

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  #177  
Old 10-21-2013, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
You're right, I didn't read the entire thread. I picked up from post 142 where you inferred that a scan should never be adjusted. You're were wrong and two other people have also since told you that you are wrong. There are sometimes when scans should be adjusted to represent the actual card. My point was, and I'll repeat it again because you obviously keep missing it, is that you can take the same card, scan it with two different scanners using the factory settings, and they'll still appear differently. I have forgotten more about scanners than you'll ever know.
I know that scans can look different from different scanners, but that is not the issue here. And I still don't think that scans ought to be adjusted, especially with the new scanners like the Canonscan 9000 there is absolutely no reason to adjust. It is not that hard for an auction house to post an accurate scan - Sterling, Mile High, B&L, Just Collect among others do just that. It is really very simple. A nice scanner costs under $200 these days and there is no excuse. Brent H himself said that he had been changing the settings, so please stop already. Because you aren't making any sense.
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  #178  
Old 10-21-2013, 09:54 PM
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Yes Jeff, he is an idiot!

Dan Mckee
eat a di** dan.

Edit***
Actually eat a couple of them. Your overweight so I know your hungry all of time.
kevin quinn

Last edited by thehoodedcoder; 10-22-2013 at 04:44 PM. Reason: profanity filter
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  #179  
Old 10-22-2013, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
You're right, I didn't read the entire thread. I picked up from post 142 where you inferred that a scan should never be adjusted. You're were wrong and two other people have also since told you that you are wrong. There are sometimes when scans should be adjusted to represent the actual card. My point was, and I'll repeat it again because you obviously keep missing it, is that you can take the same card, scan it with two different scanners using the factory settings, and they'll still appear differently. I have forgotten more about scanners than you'll ever know.
Hey Dave- Glad you mentioned scanners...What is the best on the market price wise? It's all I can do to screw in a light bulb......
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  #180  
Old 10-22-2013, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
Are you some kind of idiot? Seriously? Do you know how many people who sell cards or memorabilia for a living have been subpoenaed to grand juries? Who have been indicted? Who have plead guilty to felonies? Who have been successfully sued for fraud? Do you know how much of this has occurred due to this board?

i did not have time to properly respond to you this morning. dan's response was much easier at 5 am.

this is simply a response. it is not really meant for argument, and i probably will not even read it to be honest with you, if one does come.

1)
do you really think that i don't know that people on here like to prosecute people for their wrong doings? half of the conversations are about slander, lawsuits, the fbi or what have you? almost makes you wonder if you could find yourself at the wrong end of something just for talking on here but that is a whole nother discussion. isn't cyber bullying against the law now?

2)
nice. break it down to name calling like an adult would. that is how things remain civil and friendly.

3)
there are 4 types of board members here.
  1. the 1st one talks about the problems in this thread somethings when they have something to say.
  2. the 2nd type talks about it ALL OF THE TIME and they are on EVERY SINGLE THREAD.
  3. the 3rd kind could care less or refuses to participate in the timeless rehash under a different guise.

now any one of the first 3 types could also be someone of type 4 which is something who does something about the problem. you collectively lump the type 2 people into a classification of people that do something about it as they are "part of the board" by claiming the board has done this and the board has done that.

talking about something until you are blue in the face is not doing something.

you have also almost clumped yourself into that group as someone who DOES do something about it by saying "the board". have you in fact done something about it? if so, then my comments were not to you. were they? they were to all of the type 2ers out there that pound these threads every 30 minutes.

you may have. great. what that was i don't really care, but feel free to share it with everyone. they may be interested in it. we need more people like you then. that was my entire point. the type 2ers that are so convicted that is all they want to talk about should also be the people that get actively involved instead of JUST talking about it. no one wants to hear people say what they should be doing about something from someone that doesn't want to get involved.

if you have not, then do not clump yourself into the group of people who do by saying you are talking about the problem so you are helping. see previous post about doing something about it, as it now does apply to you.

kevin quinn

Last edited by thehoodedcoder; 10-22-2013 at 05:32 PM.
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  #181  
Old 10-22-2013, 05:54 PM
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eat a di** dan.

Edit***
Actually eat a couple of them. Your overweight so I know your hungry all of time.
kevin quinn
And in your next post you are faulting Lichtman for name calling?
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  #182  
Old 10-22-2013, 06:17 PM
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And in your next post you are faulting Lichtman for name calling?
Be very careful on name calling with Jeff....
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  #183  
Old 10-22-2013, 06:41 PM
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And in your next post you are faulting Lichtman for name calling?
quite honestly im tired of his shit. he is a f**king a**hole. im sorry if some of you guys like him but im not going to pretend to.

when unprovoked im a nice guy. but im not going to let him piss in my cerial like the di**head he is.

do you really expect me to just sit here and take that? its not the first time.

sorry. im not going to do it.

kevin quinn
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  #184  
Old 10-22-2013, 06:58 PM
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Who is the a-hole? The one asking you if you're an idiot for asking a borderline idiotic question, or the one going off the rails calling the other a blanking this, and blanking that in some internet rant?

I also think you may need to reassess your definition of "doing something". Most would constitute a thread, or multiple threads as you point out, on the most popular "blog" in the hobby a pretty big step in "doing something" to better the hobby, and the core of what is being discussed in the first place.

From what I understand, the FBI and other law enforcement agencies have used Net54 as a place to gather information and a sequencing of events when in the process of prosecuting or investigating a matter --- typically one of fraud. I can remember a few occasions, and I am sure other members can substantiate those examples, as well as offer some more from years past, when Leon has mentioned that an FBI agent contacted him over matters that were discussed on the board, because it was where they were first brought to light.

Surely if every thread was sunshine and rainbows, it is palpable that nothing would be """"done"""". If we all attended the same stupid country club that kicked someone out of their schnazzy restaurant for wearing jeans, then maybe we could more easily collaborate in a more "tangible" way, but, until that happens, the internet is a decent means of communication.
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  #185  
Old 10-22-2013, 07:04 PM
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.....reminds me of some Jack Handey Deep Thought
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  #186  
Old 10-22-2013, 07:19 PM
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Who is the a-hole? The one asking you if you're an idiot for asking a borderline idiotic question, or the one going off the rails calling the other a blanking this, and blanking that in some internet rant?
there is history which im not going to rehash.

i have bit my tounge long enough. my train station runs a tight schedule.

this derailment was warrented.

kevin quinn
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  #187  
Old 10-22-2013, 07:35 PM
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Uh...barry?
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  #188  
Old 10-22-2013, 07:45 PM
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Uh...barry?
Yes indeed. Barry! (It must feel nice to be needed.).
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  #189  
Old 10-22-2013, 07:46 PM
Rollingstone206 Rollingstone206 is offline
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...

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  #190  
Old 10-22-2013, 07:52 PM
Cardboard Junkie Cardboard Junkie is offline
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and this one....
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  #191  
Old 10-22-2013, 08:01 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xFEqdkO5UI
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  #192  
Old 10-22-2013, 09:56 PM
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npa589 npa589 is offline
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The preceding three posts are absolutely classic...

I laughed hysterically, except for the Rocky clip --- I wanted to laugh, but it was one of the few occasions where Stallone was in one of his half-decent acting modes.

True story: I once walked into a country club restaurant where they didn't allow jeans, but did allow shorts of any color, so - I asked them, theoretically, if I were to walk in wearing boxers that looked like shorts - if that would be ok. They agreed. So, I took my belt off and literally began to pull my pants down before, ahem, my grandma told me not to - saying we'd go somewhere else.

Best part? There were only 2 other patrons in the restaurant at the time.
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Last edited by npa589; 10-22-2013 at 09:58 PM. Reason: added the word "of".
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  #193  
Old 10-23-2013, 05:55 AM
barrysloate barrysloate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
Uh...barry?
I'm staying out of this. I'll sit quietly and read.
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  #194  
Old 10-23-2013, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyseymour View Post
You are from outer space. Just ask the Saco River guy.
You have repeated your scan thoughts probably 6-7 times in this thread. You are still wrong. If taking your argument outside of the earth's gravity clears your head a little, then go for it.
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  #195  
Old 10-23-2013, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyseymour View Post
I know that scans can look different from different scanners, but that is not the issue here. And I still don't think that scans ought to be adjusted, especially with the new scanners like the Canonscan 9000 there is absolutely no reason to adjust. It is not that hard for an auction house to post an accurate scan - Sterling, Mile High, B&L, Just Collect among others do just that. It is really very simple. A nice scanner costs under $200 these days and there is no excuse. Brent H himself said that he had been changing the settings, so please stop already. Because you aren't making any sense.
If an auction house created an accurate scan, and it had been adjusted to make it so, you would have no idea. And you have no reason to care other than you seem to like being a pain in the butt, "so please stop already. Because you aren't making any sense."
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  #196  
Old 10-23-2013, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runscott View Post
If an auction house created an accurate scan, and it had been adjusted to make it so, you would have no idea. And you have no reason to care other than you seem to like being a pain in the butt, "so please stop already. Because you aren't making any sense."
It's easy to say, man, and it obviously took you this long to figure out a response. Just go back to post #159 and tell me straight that you don't think the scanner settings have been adjusted on that PWCC card. I don't think you can.
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  #197  
Old 10-23-2013, 10:34 AM
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Let me just say that as a matter of general record, folks, go back and look at the card in post #159. You can see from the example that, yes, while scanner results may vary, there is no scanner that makes the results look like that. And on top of it, the person who took the scan came onto this very thread and said that he had been changing the settings. What more evidence do you people need?

Anyways, I am done responding to this Runscott character for the time being. Scott, I've met you in real life, and you are a nice guy. But your posts don't resemble much the person who you are in real life. And that's all I've got to say to you at this point. You may have whatever opinion, and all I've got to say is, good luck to you. Peace. -J
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  #198  
Old 10-23-2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyseymour View Post
It's easy to say, man, and it obviously took you this long to figure out a response. Just go back to post #159 and tell me straight that you don't think the scanner settings have been adjusted on that PWCC card. I don't think you can.
No, it took me about 5 seconds. I just haven't been spending every waking moment of my day reading your posts. This one will take me a bit longer.

Your comment above, regarding the PWCC card is completely irrelevant, as I am in complete agreement with you that some sellers modify scans to enhance cards and hide defects. That is fraudulent.

I am in disagreement with you over your repeated claim is that NO ONE should adjust scanner settings.

Also, I realize that the thrust of this thread is to discredit PWCC, and I took it off topic by arguing with you about whether or not it's okay to change scanner settings. I've said all I have to say about the subject, and I respect your right to disagree with me.
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  #199  
Old 10-23-2013, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runscott View Post
Your comment above, regarding the PWCC card is completely irrelevant, as I am in complete agreement with you that some sellers modify scans to enhance cards and hide defects. That is fraudulent.
I agree with everything you wrote except that the PWCC card is completely irrelevant. Go look at the title of the thread and the original post. In fact, your arguments are irrelevant to this thread. You wrote yourself that you took it off topic. It appears that other than what is or isn't relevant, we don't really disagree on anything at all. Which is actually kind of a relief. Good luck, Scott.
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  #200  
Old 10-23-2013, 10:43 AM
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It seems Scott's only point is that, with some scanners and some items, the factory settings will not provide an accurate representation and therefore some adjustments may be necessary. That seems pretty straightforward to me and it makes sense because my own scanner (part of an all in one) can be very inaccurate on certain colors.
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