Charles Conlon backstamp question

[T206Jim]

Does anyone have a good time frame for Charles Conlon photo backstamps?
I am particularly interested in the stamp where he is identified as the photographer for Spalding's Guide and Baseball Magazine. Thanks for the help.

[Bosox Blair]

Try posting this in the Memorabilia forum...there are some real photo experts over there, some of whom don't collect cards (so might not read this forum).

Cheers,
Blair

[T206Jim]

Thanks, I'll try that as well.

[Forever Young]

Jim,

"A PORTRAIT OF BASEBALL PHOTOGRAPHY" is a wonderful reference in regard to stamping.

That said, as I have discussed in the past, there are fake stamps out there created to deceive that have been applied recently(not by conlon).Please refer to my comments on thread below.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=193390

EDITED: By your description, I am afraid that you might be talking about a bad stamp. Below is a fake Charles Conlon stamp.

Ben

[T206Jim]

Ben,

Thank you for the post and cautionary sentiment. I have "A Portrait of Baseball Photography" but it is silent on this issue. Attached are the front and back of a Zack Wheat cabinet mount photo by Charles Conlon with the same stamp you referenced. It has the Sporting News Collection hologram. I understand that many of the Conlon photos came from the Sporting News Collection. A very similar cabinet mounted Alexander with the Conlon stamp was recently sold on RMY Auctions. These photos seem to have all the indicia of authenticity. Is it your thought that any "Spalding's Guide and Baseball Magazine" Conlon stamp is a fake? How was this type of stamp established as a fake? Any enlightenment would be appreciated.

Jim

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by T206Jim

Ben,

Thank you for the post and cautionary sentiment. I have "A Portrait of Baseball Photography" but it is silent on this issue. Attached are the front and back of a Zack Wheat cabinet mount photo by Charles Conlon with the same stamp you referenced. It has the Sporting News Collection hologram. I understand that many of the Conlon photos came from the Sporting News Collection. A very similar cabinet mounted Alexander with the Conlon stamp was recently sold on RMY Auctions. These photos seem to have all the indicia of authenticity. Is it your thought that any "Spalding's Guide and Baseball Magazine" Conlon stamp is a fake? How was this type of stamp established as a fake? Any enlightenment would be appreciated.

Jim

This stamp was created and used post "a portrait of baseball photography" and after conlon was dead(fake created in last 10 years). Therefore, it will not be in the book. The problem is, it was used on some photos that could be potentially good too(not the majority). My thought is thst if your photo is a "standard"6by 8 and if you can lift a corner to view psprr(cks out) and the front is vintage.. It is probably good and the crook who used the bad stamp was just stamp happy that day and stamped ecrtything(not knowing good from bad themselves). This stamp on the back of the photo on your wheat is a forgery, however. I would get the photo removed from the mount. I am on my phone so I apologize for run-ons and spelling/grammatical errors but I hope you got the point. Pm me with any other questions or email me at info@weingartensvintage.com.

[Runscott]

Just caught this.

Jim bought the photo from me, I bought it from Mears. I am absolutely NOT going to get into another long, drawn-out thing with comments from loads of experts, etc., etc., about whether or not a photo is fake, real, vintage, not vintage, etc.

The print is real and vintage. The mount is real and vintage. The crop marks are real and vintage. I am not going to get into the stamp one way or another, as this thread is the first I've heard about it not being real. I'm kind of surprised, as I've owned this photo for three years and many, many people have looked at it - it has been posted on this forum several times, as I was quite proud of it.

I don't like airing personal deals on this forum, but I can see where this is heading, and I ain't going there. Jim is welcome to send the photo back this week for a full refund. He should absolutely NOT remove the photo from the mount, lift corners or bother with it in any way. If he wants to spend more time researching it, then it is his. That's the deal - fair or not, it's the way it is.

And whoever owns the other one of these mounted Conlons from Rhys - if they want to sell it to me for what they paid, or even possibly a little more, please talk to me. It is also a real, vintage Conlon on a real, vintage mount, with real vintage crop marks. I would love to own both of them.

Thanks,
Scott

[Runscott]

Okay, just checked the mounted Alexander sold on RMY. I can almost guarantee (without having it in hand) that the print, mount and cropping are 100% vintage and authentic. However, the handwriting and Conlon signatures are fake. It also has the bad stamp Ben described - Ben assures me it is 100% a fake stamp.

The stamp always had me perplexed, as it made no sense that Conlon would have put ANY stamp on a mounted photo, or that he would even have mounted the photo the ways these were mounted - almost certainly they were glued to a mount by the 'journalist' who did the cropping, just to make work easier. The cropping was beautifully done, and is a great example of such work. The only scenario that I could imagine was that Conlon had sent prints to the news service and when they returned the prints, mounted, Conlon added a stamp so they would be identified if sent out again. Obviously, the real scenario was that some jerk added a fake stamp at a later date, in order to help sell the photo as a Conlon. The same jerk also added fake Conlon signatures to loads of authentic Conlons that only had Conlon's handwriting (no signature), or that had no Conlon info - again, to add value. The fake Conlon signature on the Grove neither adds nor detracts from value - no different than someone writing 'Conlon' on the back to identify the photographer, although this is obviously an attempt at forgery.

That's all I know, and all I have to say about this.

Jim - send it back or keep it, but no sitting on it.

[T206Jim]

Just to be clear, Scott has been responsive and helpful, the very definition of reputable. I will buy from him again.

I'd like to redirect the thread to my original question. Does anyone have any further information about Conlon stamps and the time periods of their use?

Thanks,
Jim

[Runscott]

Jim, very nice of you to say so.

I will check Henry Yee's book and post what I find in the morning...unless someone beats me to it.

[btcarfagno]

Wish I could help regarding the back stamp issue. My only Conlon Type 1 does not have a back stamp.



Tom C

[Runscott]

This one is being returned to me Monday by Jim, which I am actually very happy about. I sold all of my other Conlons in Cleveland and this was always my favorite. Maybe I could get the previous owner to add his 'Conlon' signature?

I am still interested in the similar Conlon Alexander mounted photo, or any others that are in a similar format - I am hoping that there were a few others that the journalist mounted in order to make marking up for publication easier.

I know someone else had a copy of this print - could you please post? The only other image I could find of it was on this site, where it is identified as a 1919 image by Conlon: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...ack_Wheat.jpeg

[T206Jim]

Scott, it is back on its way home. Good luck with your mounted Conlon quest!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by T206Jim

Scott, it is back on its way home. Good luck with your mounted Conlon quest!

Thanks, Jim. I just picked up a Zack Wheat signature, so the display I envisioned before selling it to you will finally be realized.