T206 HOF tiers

[sterlingfox]

I'd get rid of Tier 4 and push Eddie Collins down / LaJoie up.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by sterlingfox

I'd get rid of Tier 4 and push Eddie Collins down / LaJoie up.

I agree with this and I would merge Tiers 5&6 and just make them all a single Tier 4 and add Bender & Baker (i.e., HOFers that matter). After these guys, you have the Jennings, Wallace, Beckley, J Collins, etc who are HOFers but are (in my opinion) glorified commons.

[Baseball Rarities]

Personally, I would group Mathewson with Johnson and Young.

[trdcrdkid]

I agree that there's no way Eddie Collins belongs in a tier with Lajoie. He's treated as a mid-tier HOFer by the market, despite his great stats. Below are the current SMR prices for a PSA 5 of each T206 card of these players, grouped by the OP's suggested tiers. Clearly Cobb is in a class of his own, followed by Young and WaJo. Matty could arguably go in that second tier as well, and Speaker is not far behind. After that comes Lajoie, then Tinker-Evers-Chance, then (arguably) one tier containing the rest of these players, including Collins. Some other players would also belong in that tier, like Home Run Baker ($450 for a PSA 5, higher than Collins). Of course, SMR prices don't necessarily correspond directly to the market (you could probably double most of them), but they seem to be a reasonably accurate measure of relative value.

Cobb green: 15,000
Cobb red: 5,750
Cobb bat on: 5,750
Cobb bat off: 5,500

Young portrait: 3,500
Young bare hand: 1,950
Young glove: 1,750
WaJo portrait: 3,000
WaJo hands at chest: 1,650

Matty portrait: 3,000
Matty white cap: 1,750
Matty dark cap: 1,350
Speaker: 1,350

Lajoie portrait: 750
Lajoie bat: 625
Lajoie throwing: 550
E. Collins: 425

M. Brown Cubs: 485
M. Brown portrait: 475
M. Brown Chicago: 425
Walsh: 525
Joss portrait: 500
Joss hands at chest: 425
Keeler portrait: 650
Keeler bat: 550
Wheat: 500
Chesbro: 450

Crawford throwing 400
Crawford bat: 375
Bender portrait: 450
Bender trees: 400
Bender no trees: 375
Tinker portrait: 700
Tinker knees: 600
Tinker bat off: 495
Tinker bat on: 495
Evers portrait: 575
Evers Cubs: 515
Evers Chicago: 490
Chance yellow: 575
Chance red: 550
Chance batting: 450

[Throttlesteer]

Some good insight and research. Maybe my inclusion of Collins is wishful thinking. I don't understand why he's not more sought after, given his performance and the lone, beautiful red portrait in the T206 set.

I did forget Baker, who seems to garner more attention than players with similar output. Admittedly, his mid-grade examples don't seem to come up as often and they always have big price tags.

[iwantitiwinit]

LaJoie clearly in front of Speaker at least his portrait is. 750 for psa not even close you can't even get a 4 for 1k these days. Granted the other cards trade for far more than those SMR prices cited but I'd much prefer a LaJoie portrait over the Speaker in PSA 5. Similarly I think that Mathewson portrait rivals the Young Portrait but not the Johnson. I'd say Tier 1 Cobb, Tier 2 Johnson, Tier 3 Mathewson, Young, Tier 4 LaJoie, Speaker.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

Some good insight and research. Maybe my inclusion of Collins is wishful thinking. I don't understand why he's not more sought after, given his performance and the lone, beautiful red portrait in the T206 set.

I did forget Baker, who seems to garner more attention than players with similar output. Admittedly, his mid-grade examples don't seem to come up as often and they always have big price tags.

Other than his fabulous stats, he doesn't have much notoriety. Cobb, Johnson, Mathewson, famous for all sorts of reasons. What highlights in the history of baseball feature Eddie Collins other than not being implicated in the Black Sox scandal?

[tmw2ward]

Tier 1 Cobb
Tier 2 Johnson, Cy Young
Tier 3 Mathewson, LaJoie
Tier 4 Speaker, Collins. (Evers, Tinkers, Brown, Joss Portraits)
Tier 5 Joss, Baker, TEC ect
Tier 6 the rest of the HOFers

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Other than his fabulous stats, he doesn't have much notoriety. Cobb, Johnson, Mathewson, famous for all sorts of reasons. What highlights in the history of baseball feature Eddie Collins other than not being implicated in the Black Sox scandal?

I'm not necessarily a huge Collins fan. I can appreciate his success, especially his base-stealing skills well into his 30s. I wasn't arguing that he should be considered along with the top dogs. But, his numbers aren't much different from Lajoie. He just happens to have a single T206 instead of three. My comment was only exploring why he's held in significantly lower regard compared to Lajoie. It's hard to think of two more comparable players.

[MVSNYC]

My quick take on it...

Tier 1 - Ty Cobb
Tier 2 - Johnson, Matty, Young, Wagner (the player)
Tier 3 - Lajoie, Speaker, Plank (the player)
Tier 4 - E. Collins, M. Brown, Walsh, Joss, Keeler, Waddell
Tier 5 - Crawford, Wheat, Chesbro
Tier 6 - Everyone else (which could be further tiered)

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by trdcrdkid

I agree that there's no way Eddie Collins belongs in a tier with Lajoie. He's treated as a mid-tier HOFer by the market, despite his great stats. Below are the current SMR prices for a PSA 5 of each T206 card of these players, grouped by the OP's suggested tiers. Clearly Cobb is in a class of his own, followed by Young and WaJo. Matty could arguably go in that second tier as well, and Speaker is not far behind. After that comes Lajoie, then Tinker-Evers-Chance, then (arguably) one tier containing the rest of these players, including Collins. Some other players would also belong in that tier, like Home Run Baker ($450 for a PSA 5, higher than Collins). Of course, SMR prices don't necessarily correspond directly to the market (you could probably double most of them), but they seem to be a reasonably accurate measure of relative value.

Cobb green: 15,000
Cobb red: 5,750
Cobb bat on: 5,750
Cobb bat off: 5,500

Young portrait: 3,500
Young bare hand: 1,950
Young glove: 1,750
WaJo portrait: 3,000
WaJo hands at chest: 1,650

Matty portrait: 3,000
Matty white cap: 1,750
Matty dark cap: 1,350
Speaker: 1,350

Lajoie portrait: 750
Lajoie bat: 625
Lajoie throwing: 550
E. Collins: 425

M. Brown Cubs: 485
M. Brown portrait: 475
M. Brown Chicago: 425
Walsh: 525
Joss portrait: 500
Joss hands at chest: 425
Keeler portrait: 650
Keeler bat: 550
Wheat: 500
Chesbro: 450

Crawford throwing 400
Crawford bat: 375
Bender portrait: 450
Bender trees: 400
Bender no trees: 375
Tinker portrait: 700
Tinker knees: 600
Tinker bat off: 495
Tinker bat on: 495
Evers portrait: 575
Evers Cubs: 515
Evers Chicago: 490
Chance yellow: 575
Chance red: 550
Chance batting: 450

I have to wonder what the SMR prices for these same players will look like a year from now. My own gut tells me flat or declined.

[ccre]

Definitely Waddell would be in a tier higher than common HOFer.

[Leon]

That is a good guess. I think slightly higher except for autographed ones.

Originally Posted by Yoda

I have to wonder what the SMR prices for these same players will look like a year from now. My own gut tells me flat or declined.

[PiratesWS1979]

This is how I would rank...or at least how I collect.

1. Cobb
2. a. Johnson b. Mathewson c. Young
3. a. Speaker b. Lajoie
4. a. Brown b. Keeler c. Collins d. Waddell
5. a. Walsh b. Crawford c. Joss
6. Tinker to Evers to Chance
7. Everyone else

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Personally, I would group Mathewson with Johnson and Young.

This.