Edelman

packs · #1 02-05-2019, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And who very well might have obtained them from a different source. I imagine an NFL star wouldn't have much trouble getting access to whatever drugs he wanted, and there are probably people out there offering them every day. And in any event it's a leap of faith (or maybe a leap of hate) to taint Brady with that.

Yeah, well, from what I remember Bonds tried to pass off his admission by portraying himself as an innocent client of a disreputable trainer who didn't tell him what he was putting into his body.

Sounds like a guy with something in common with who we're talking about. That would be the cloud I mentioned. I never said there was hard evidence, just a reason to suspect. And in Brady's case his direct ties to a guy like that outweigh any evidence I've heard about Ortiz, who is believed by many to have cheated. But not Tom Brady, oh no, never. You can't even suspect him of it.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 02-05-2019, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Yeah, well, from what I remember Bonds tried to pass off his admission by portraying himself as an innocent client of a disreputable trainer who didn't tell him what he was putting into his body.

Sounds like a guy with something in common with who we're talking about. That would be the cloud I mentioned. I never said there was hard evidence, just a reason to suspect.

I guess we just view the available evidence in a different light at this point. I don't care for Guerrero based on what I've read either, but I don't think he's a drug guy, could be wrong.

pokerplyr80 · #3 02-05-2019, 11:30 AM

I forgot about Pettite, but still don't think a suspicion should keep Clemens out. Hopefully one of these years enough voters will agree. As for bonds his size difference between his last year or two playing and a few years later is enough to convince me he was using something. But he was a HOFer before he started getting bigger. If I had a vote it would be yes on them both.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 02-05-2019, 12:29 PM

Gun to my head and I had to guess right, I would say Clemens used. But I think lots of guys used who have been given a pass. I'm really not sure what the right answer is, for example I personally support Clemens and Bonds but I would vote no on Sosa and Palmeiro and I'm not sure how to rationalize that.

Jim65 · #5 02-05-2019, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Gun to my head and I had to guess right, I would say Clemens used. But I think lots of guys used who have been given a pass. I'm really not sure what the right answer is, for example I personally support Clemens and Bonds but I would vote no on Sosa and Palmeiro and I'm not sure how to rationalize that.

Palmeiro is easy to vote no since he failed a PED test, Sosa never did but was caught using a corked bat so he was caught cheating.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 02-05-2019, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim65

Palmeiro is easy to vote no since he failed a PED test, Sosa never did but was caught using a corked bat so he was caught cheating.

I think my feeling right or wrong is that Bonds and Clemens are all time greats even if they don't use, whereas Sosa and Palmeiro most of their numbers for their whole career are due to using. That could be off. I'm not sure how I feel about McGwire.