OT - Shipping Fee Hike

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Posted By: Mark

I won a $190 vintage card from that locked-out sport, and the auction page clearly indicated that shipping would be $6 with no mention of insurance. Is it now ok for the seller to demand $15.95 for shipping and insurance?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5145352061

When I asked whether I could pay the stated $6 shipping with no insurance, I received this reply:

"Hi,
The shipping price is 15.95 because your item is 189.05
I can't ship for $6.00 because i ship with insurance / expresspost
Is better for you and better for me
The reason is ....i'm sure you receive your cards and you....you receive your card...189.05 is the good reason....
I'm a serious seller and you a serious bidder.
Thanks,"

Have I made a mistake thinking all Candadians are reasonable people just because Ben is so cool? I mean shouldn't I have the option of paying the amount listed in the auction? The seler has a high feedback rating so perhaps otehr buyers are happy to pay the extra $9.95 for insurance. Am I unreasonable if I refuse to pay it?

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Posted By: DD

It could be that his $6.00 shipping charge is for Canada only. I know in my ads I indicate that I will quote shipping for international winners, but I did not see any language in his ad that mentions something like that.

Truth be told, I charge the same to Canada as to anywhere in the US as the shipping charges are not really that much different for small items.

I feel the seller should give you the choice on how you would like it sent.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

Have I made a mistake thinking all Candadians are reasonable people

Yes.

Bill

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Posted By: Elliot

Bill, I thought no political comments were allowed on the board.

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Posted By: Max Weder

You can go to http://www.canadapost.ca to check his rate quotes. A small package like that shouldn't be that expensive.

Max

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

Political comments are verboten - gripes about CA shipping policies are fair game, however. Our northern neighbors' postal service was apparently based on the North Korean model. Perhaps I'm still fuming because I was on a plane that got diverted to Edmonton last week... that's a city?

Bill

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Posted By: Elliot

It could have been worse.....try going to Edmonton in January.

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Posted By: Ben

Yes, Edmonton is a city...it's where I was born and raised in fact. Great hockey in Edmonton, Bill. Here's a shot of the 1988 Edmonton Oilers with their 4th Stanley Cup, in the last season Gretzky played as an Oiler. Just because I know you're that interested Bill


5 hofers in Fuhr, Coffey, Messier, Gretzky, and Kurri, most talented hockey team of all time imo. Great memories.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

but read between the lines: he is telling you, without saying it, that the auction fell below his expectations for the sale and that if you don't make his price of $200 for the item, your card will be "lost" in the mail. It is wrong but if you want the card for $200 anyway, buy it, wait for the delivery, then turn him in to ebay for violating their policy and post a negative feedback. Under no circumstances would I fight him on it, refuse his insurance extortion and pay for the card because you are practically guaranteed never to see the card if you do, IMHO. If it was me, I might take the risk if I could pay by credit card but more likely I would just renege on the deal. After all, a crook on one issue is probably a crook on the rest. Odds are that since he is violating ebay policy by baiting and switching, he will not make a stink about it if you do renege.

Bill C., don't you work for ebay? Any ideas?

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Posted By: Chris

If I understand the post correctly, I don't think the seller is being completely unreasonable. I know to insure a package GOING to Canada is quite expensive. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $10. I think the seller is just trying to protect both parties. If I were selling an item for that amount I would want the buyer to purchase insurance as well because what happens if it is not insured and the buyer doesn't get it? He may ASSUME the seller is a thief and leave potentially damaging feedback when in reality it may have just been lost in the mail. How many times have buyers waived the insurance option but still feel the seller should be responsible for the mail getting delivered? The seller should put something in the listing saying insurance is required for certain amounts. Looks to me like the extra $9.95 he is charging is probably the actual coat of insurance and is not going in his pocket. It doesn'tr cost $6 to ship a card though. All in all I don't think it warrants negative feedback unless you pay for the insurance and he does not insure it.

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Posted By: Chris

Actaul shipping from Canada for a package weighing .1 lbs with insurance is $12.02. That is the cheapest way. If he ships it Expresspost like he says, $18.11. He would lose $ on shipping. I think the seller is being reasonable IMO.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

No Mark,
You are not unreasonable to expect the seller to abide by the terms of the auction which you won.

But, as has been pointed out, if you really want the card; the seller advises that it would be a good idea to pay more. I agree with him. Much like I agree that people at traffic lights who wash my windows with a greasy rag and a brick in their other hand deserve a tip.

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Posted By: Max Weder

Since Ben confessed he's from Edmonton and not originally from the great city of Montreal, I must similarly confess I am not from Vancouver, but from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, made famous by Danny Kaye in A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, (along with Walla Walla Washington--think solar eclipse scene)where Danny also mesmorized the Arthurian knights by organizing a game of baseball. In case Bill is planning a vacation and found Edmonton a little too cosmopolitan, I've attached a billboard for Saskatoon (or perhaps a restaurant called "Saskatoon", located elsewhere?), which we refer to affectionately as "Little Edmonton"

Max



GAH! A google search shows that this restaurant is actually in Greenville, SC. Will the US be coming after our water next ?

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I have friendly debates with a vegan friend all the time, so I will send her this image.

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Posted By: Howie

There's nothing in the auction in any way hinting that the charge for shipping and handling would be more than the $6.00 stated. There's no mention that insurance was required and would need to be added after the auction close. Ask him to ship to you at the $6.00 rate stated in the auction and that you'll take full responsibility if the package never shows up. Then pay using your credit card through Paypal. This puts the burden of proof of delivery entirely on him. If he can't prove he shipped it and you got it then you've got protection from Paypal and your credit card. It's a no lose situation for you.

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Posted By: Chris

No lose situation if you consider losing your integrity no big deal. Howie's "GREAT" advice is exactly why the seller is trying to protect both parties. It's because of people who do things like accept responsibilty for uninsured mail but still expect the seller to cover it if it gets lost that sellers require insurance. Granted the seller was wrong for not stating he requires inusrance but for a buyer to tell a seller to ship uninsured at the buyers risk and then try to get your money back from Paypal if it IS lost shows no integrity at all. I agree the seller should have mentioned insurance in his description but I don't think the guy is trying to make $ on it. He is just trying to protect both parties. IMO the seller is risking alot more here. Almost $200 if it is not insured. The buyer is just paying $10 extra more than he thought. Although I would personally not be happy about paying an extra $10 I could surely see where the seller is coming from. I would personally pay the extra $10, keep my integrity, and consider it a lesson on international shipping.

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Posted By: Max Weder

As a pescotarian, I can only add this :

--in Edmonton, the vegetarian entree is fish.
--in Calgary, the vegetarian entree is chicken.

(Can be modified and applied to any two contrasting cities in Texas)

Max

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Posted By: Howie

The seller knows what he's doing when listing delivery charges. A $255 Bobby Orr for $10, sets at $20, and other cards at $6. I didn't see a $15.95. The card can be shipped safe and secure for $6.

The cost for delivery was clearly displayed and the buyer did nothing wrong. The buyer was ready to pay but the seller added the new $9.95 protection fee.

Integrity? How does saying no to the extortion put one's integrity at risk? There was no mistake in listing $6 for that card, and even if there there was it'd then be a chance for the seller to display his integrity in how the situation is handled. Why should the buyer need to pay $9.95 for the seller's lack of integrity in handling of this matter?

The buyer will do nothing wrong if he walks away from this mess.

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Posted By: Chris

You said for Mark to:Ask him to ship to you at the $6.00 rate stated in the auction and that you'll take full responsibility if the package never shows up. Then pay using your credit card through Paypal. This puts the burden of proof of delivery entirely on him. If he can't prove he shipped it and you got it then you've got protection from Paypal and your credit card. It's a no lose situation for you.

If you can't understand where that action is lacking integrity, you never will. This great idea of yours is exactly one of the reasons many people on this board don't like or accept Paypal any longer. Buyer doesn't pay for insurance and accepts responsibilty for lost mail. Then when it is lost, file a complaint with Paypal to get your money back because the seller has no trackable proof of shipment. The buyer has every right to back out of the deal but not to deceive the seller and put ALL the burden on him. Yes the seller is in the wrong here for not disclosing this before but it doesn't make things right by doing what you tell Mark to do. Two reasonable people should be able to work this out without Mark having to be completely deceitful and dishonest. We're talking about $10 not $10,000. Again, if the seller ships the way he says he will, he will actually lose $ on shipping. That is not exactly what I call extortion $. The bottom line is the seller is asking the Mark to pay exact shipping charges with insurance so that SOMEBODY does not lose $200.

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Posted By: Mark McCleary

Thanks for the responses. The great thing about receiving conflicting advice is that I’m free to “cherry pick.” I am going to renege on the purchase (actually, I think the seller is reneging by refusing to abide by the terms of the auction). I have no problem paying $16 for shipping and mandatory insurance if that amount is stated in the auction such that I, and more importantly, my underbidder, have the opportunity to correctly price our bids. But it wasn’t. The seller knew (or should have known) that this card would sell for more than a de minimis amount so I’m not too sympathetic for his position that it will now cost $9.95 more than he originally expected to ship the card via his shipping method of choice. If the seller wants the card sent Expresspost, he should either have stated the high cost of Expresspost in the auction or he should now eat that cost. And I agree with Ben that if I pay only the $6, it will likely be a scorching day in Saskatchewan before the card arrives.

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Posted By: Jason

I'm from Saskatoon as well.

As far as shipping to the U.S. goes...

I learned the hardway a few times, but if I knew a card was going to sell for over a 100 bucks U.S. then I would automatically ask for 13.00 bucks shipping, as express post costs about that much.

And you really have to ship it x-press post because a lot of our friends to the south won't see if for a month otherwise and that makes them nervous. =P

I still have the odd problem when it comes to shipping if a guy buys a three of four lots of mine. I generally ask for 5 bucks shipping regardless of whatever card I'm selling as a minimum.

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Posted By: Max Weder

Jason

I don't know if you saw it back in July and I won't bore the VBC by re-posting my Saskatoon c. 1914 cigar box (it's been deleted from the earlier thread), but if you send me your email (my address is weder@shaw.ca), I can send you scans of the box and some Western Canada Baseball League photos, if that is of interest.

Max