Rare Cards of Sudanese Players

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Posted By: Mark

Any out there?

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Ok, I'll bite. Who are the Sudanese players?

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Posted By: Rick

are there any sudanese players?

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Sudanese? Is that a real sport? Cards of people playing Sudanese should be interesting. Ok, are they soccer cards or are there actually any Sudanese ball players out there (or in the past)?

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Posted By: Griffin's

The only one I can think of offhand is Manute Bol.

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Posted By: Rick

i thought he was a basketball player?

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Posted By: Joann

I took the thread as a parallel/comment on the thread about Jewish players. I don't have an opinion on that either way, and may be entirely off base. But that was my first take.

Joann

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Posted By: Cobby33

Methinks Joann may be onto something!

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Posted By: David Smith

SHHH. There are Sudanese baseball players but it is a top secret that only a very few select people know about.

There is a secret baseball academy outside of Khartoum in a series of non-descript buildings that works on developing young players into Major League caliber talent. Only the best are "exported" to the US and Japan. The rest, sadly, are shot for fear that the secret will get out.

Those that are exported have their names changed to things like Ichiro Suzuki, Pedro Martinez and Dontrelle Willis to help cover their tracks. Part of these players salaries are given back to the political leadership of Sudan. Some of the money goes to cover the cost of the baseball academy, part is kept by top level officials of the government and the rest is used for miscellaneous Sudanese expenses (mostly fighting civil wars within the country).

To keep the players from telling the secret, all members of their family are rounded up and imprisoned until the players retire.

Yours secretly,

Sudanese Slim

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Posted By: Josh K.

I would say that if Joanne is correct, and I think she might be, that Marckus99 needs to come on here and explain his intent as it strikes me as somewhat anti-semitic.

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Posted By: Alan

Joanne - Agreed !!! I'm glad I started this type of post rather than "what dealer would you like to hurt" or "whatever happened to so & so...."

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Posted By: leon

Maybe it was a joke much like the author?

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

No, it must be a hate crime!

Everyone knows better than to joke with Jewish people.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Leon,

I dont know the author and, if it was a joke, that is fine - let him come on and explain himself. I dont know him well enough for me to assume that it was a joke.

Gil,

Feel free to joke with me all you want - I have no problem with that and certainly hope/believe your comment above was intended as a joke. What I have a problem with is someone apparantly taking a pot shot at another collector's choice to focus on Jewish players, as if there is something wrong with that choice.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Thank you Josh and Leon for helping to defuse something which was heading in the wrong direction.

If anyone is uncertain of what collectibles are approved, please see Hal for the list of those authorized. I think it is termed the CWYWC list.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I must be totally clueless here... what's the connection between Sudanese players, Jewish collectors and the author? Am I just that stupid (that's a rhetorical question that most would answer - yes, Fred, you're just that stupid)?

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Posted By: leon

It seemed to be a swipe at folks that collect Jewish player cards, which there are many who collect them (as Joanne stated). Unless there is something I don't see that would be my thought...Not really a nice gesture but then again not everything is nice ....

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

That "Slim" guy started this by making fun of African Americans from Sudan. Before long the Jewish community chimed in and Leon had to quell an insurrection.

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Posted By: JimB

Gil,
I don't think bringing attention to bigotry when it arises is the "wrong direction". Just the opposite. Whether it is homophobia, anti-semitism, or racism in other forms, it seems to pop up on this forum on a fairly regular basis. Silence seems to me to be the voice of complicity. If people don't want to hear responses to bigotry, then they should leave the bigotry off the board and stick to baseball cards. I would much prefer this stuff never come up, but it does.
Best,
JimB

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Posted By: leon

I completely agree but am slow to censor stuff on the board. I put free speech very high on the totum pole...as long as it's not anonymous..One pet peeve I have is "not" allowing stuff to be put out in the open...as you are kindly reiterating.....best regards

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Gentlemen:

I see no clear indication of bigotry in this thread. My pet peeve however, is the other side of the coin. Specifically, persons who exhibit a hypersensitivity to insult. Sometimes these persons appear to seek out opportunities to take offense at comments not intended to offend. When I was younger this approach to life was termed "carrying a chip on your shoulder". Unfortunately, society's current view seems to support this hypersensitivity.

I do not support that philosophy. I believe that it makes for far greater difficulty in communication. This difficulty is already quite pronounced in a format such as ours, in which the advantage of inflection, facial expression, and other personal communication assets are not available.

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Posted By: Alan

I agree with Leon that the original post seemed to be a swipe at my legit thread on rare Jewish player cards, which are quite a few who collect them (as Joanne stated).

I think it's time for Leon to lock this one up...

Alan

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

I'm with Gil on this one.

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Posted By: Chris Bland

I agree with Gil on this one too

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Posted By: leon

Gil- since we are here, and you don't feel this was a swipe at other collectors, can you please name (oh, say 1-100) all of the Sudanese major league baseball players? If you can't easily get to "1" then maybe, just maybe, we were onto something?.... No, I won't let bigotry become the norm on the board, and I don't think I am hypersensitive to it either, but I will be darned if I don't pull the discussion out into the open.... BTW, I always appreciate your posts even though sometimes they go a little over my head.....

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Posted By: davidcycleback

The original post was obviously a joke against another thread. However, I beleive it's a leap in judgment to say it was racially motivated. He may have merely picked an obscure country arbitrarily, and he could have instead picked, say, Finish or Paraguayan players. Duly note that many Sudanese are not black, and it is construction of later posters that Sudanese meant black.

Sudan was not a good country to pick for a joke, but it's probably best to interpret the post as a bad joke that did not go across well with the audience-- as there's no evidence that it was anything more.

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Posted By: Josh K.

David - I dont think anybody here thought that the thread was racially motivated. It did, however, insinuate that Alan's collecting choice (Jewish players) was stupid.

Further, I dont think its being overly sensitive to call someone out for making a moronic comment. Its also very telling to me that Mark has yet to come back and explain his post - but perhaps he only has enough free time at night to post such drivel.

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Posted By: Craig

Instead of everyone interpreting his motives why doesn't Mark come on and explain why he started this thread? I am curious as to his thought process as it seems obvious there are no Sudanese players.
I wish someone would start a thread about Irish players. Just the 1890's Orioles would provide a treasure chest of great cards.

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Posted By: Steve M.

if Tbob and I just stay out of this one.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Leon,

I will agree with you there. I certainly do not know of any Sudanese ballplayers. But I do not think of ballplayers as grouped by their place of origin nor by their religion, etc. For example, I do not know of any Cambodian Buddist, Latvian Orthodox, nor Scottish Catholic ball players; although I may only not know of their affiliations.

And I will also agree that in many of my posts, I too have difficulty determining what I am talking about. However, in this thread it is unclear whether a disparaging intent was directed to Jewish people or to Sudanese Americans, or to Sudanese Africans, or none of these.

I trust that will clear up any misconceptions.

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Always looking to add to my "vertically challenged players who had one major league at-bat" collection.

(A joke, merely. No hidden commentary).

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Posted By: andy becker

i do believe that there was a taste of anti semitism here.
no doubt in my mind.

to take a pot shot at alan's collecting is poor taste at best.....

marcus, i sure would like to hear the rational in starting this thread.
there is really no reason to deteriorate the board as you have. joke or not.

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Posted By: Chris Bland

How is it anti-semitic? If I wrote that I think there are too many posts about Jewish ballplayers, would I also be labeled an anti-semite?

Maybe Marcus' post was rude and unproductive, but that's all it was.

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Posted By: andy becker

that was my take on marcus' post.

chris, you are welcome to your opinion....i think i should be able to voice mine.

i do think marcus should explain himself.

if all marcus said was that there are too many posts on jewish players or t206's, then it would have been left at that.
to make a crack remark about a sudaneese ballplayer (and we all know darn well there aren't any) was, as i stated earlier, poor at best and anti semitic at worst.

either way not good for this board.

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Posted By: Wesley

"to make a crack remark about a sudaneese ballplayer (and we all know darn well there aren't any) was, as i stated earlier, poor at best and anti semitic at worst."

Did you spell Sudanese like that intentionally? You don't have something against the people from that region of the world do you?

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Posted By: Josh K.

I too believe that the thread was in poor taste at best and anti-semitic at worst. I guess those of you who dont see how it could be interpreted as such require something far less subtle - Perhaps if Mark had titled this thread "Rare Cards of Third Reich Ballplayers."

(I honestly hope there was no spelling errors in here as I have nothing against anyone and no, wes, I am not comparing persons of Sudanese heritage to the third reich).

Edited to add - everyone is referring to Marcus - lets not confuse Marckus99 (the person who posted this thread) with Marcus0202 (a regular contributor to the board).

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Posted By: Chris Bland

Well I think accusing someone of an anti-semitic act before the person even defends themselves is equally lacking in taste.

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Posted By: Mark

"Edited to add - everyone is referring to Marcus - lets not confuse Marckus99 (the person who posted this thread) with Marcus0202 (a regular contributor to the board)."

I was just thinking the same thing. =o)

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Posted By: Bill K

I was going to post a similar topic about cards of former players that became dentists, but I didn't want to be labled an anti-dentite........a RAAAAAGGGING ANTI-DENTITE!!!!

Bill

For those who don't get it, you didn't watch enough Must See TV in the 90's.

My personal collection - http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/

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Posted By: Josh K.

Hey Chris,

Mark has had all day to respond and has failed to do so. If he comes on and states that his intent was something other than what I and others believe it to be, I will be the first one to acknowledge that. So far, all the requests to explain the post have been ignored.

For what its worth, I dont think Mark has been accused of anything. We have expressed our opinion of how we read the post and asked for an explanation.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Anti-Dentite - now that was funny. You can never have too many Seinfeld references. Edited to add - I believe its "rabid anti-dentite" however.

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Posted By: dd

What's next?????You believe they should have their own schools???

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Posted By: warshawlaw

There is a part of the book where Clem Labine is minimizing a racist insult to Jackie Robinson by saying that he would not be that offended if some guy on the other team had called him a French-Canadian **** (rather than calling JR a black ****), and someone pointed out to him that they don't lynch French-Canadian ****s. In other words, some things said to some folks are just more subject to criticism than similar things said to others because of the history they carry, and that's just a sad residue of centuries of racism and bad behavior. Members of many minority groups are hyper-vigilant as to any signs of bigotry because we've all learned that once discrimination gets rolling, it inevitably sucks in all minorities (like Chris Rock said about tolerating immigrant-bashing: "Next comes the blacks and the Jews; that train's never late"). For those who consider the Jewish collectors who responded angrily to this post to be overly sensitive, there are a lot of things I would like to say about whiny white boys feeling oppressed, but this isn't the time or the place to get into it. Suffice it to say that you have to walk a bit in their shoes first before you can understand how an ambiguous comment like this one can trigger a seemingly out of proportion response. Maybe the Robinson example will give you some ideas in that regard. It just wasn't that long ago in this country that signs reading no negroes, Jews or dogs were posted.

My take on the post, for what little it is worth is that it was just a not very clever effort to make fun of the Jewish players post, but I can see where it could be interpreted as a backhanded anti-semitic comment to the effect that those who collect cards of Jewish ballplayers are being "too Jewish" about their collecting [Blazing Saddles: TAGGART: "I know; we'll kill the first born male child in each household." LAMAR: [shaking head] "Too Jewish"). What I don't think the post was meant to be was a serious question about Sudanese players. I also don't think the Darfur situation or racism against blacks played into it at all.

I applaud Leon for allowing this post to stay up. Censorship isn't the answer except for obscenity and totally off-topic stuff.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Thanks Adam - very well put, as usual. To lighten the mood a bit:

JERRY: So you won't believe what happened with Whatley today. It got back to him that I made this little dentist joke and he got all offended. Those people can be so touchy.
KRAMER: Those people, listen to yourself.
JERRY: What?
KRAMER: You think that dentists are so different from me and you? They came to this country just like everybody else, in search of a dream.
JERRY: Kramer, he's just a dentist.
KRAMER: Yeah, and you're an anti-dentite.

JERRY: I am not an anti-dentite!
KRAMER: You're a rabid anti-dentite! Oh, it starts with a few jokes and some slurs. "Hey, denty!" Next thing you know you're saying they should have their own schools.
JERRY: They do have their own schools!
KRAMER: Yeah!....

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

Tim Watley.........

He should get a label baby junior for Christmas........

Love those magazines at the dentists office too.......

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Posted By: Chris Bland

Robert Wagner as Mickey's dad...


Jerry: Hi, Mr. Abbott.

Mr. Abbott: That's Dr. Abbott, D.D.S. Tim Whatley was one of my students. And if this wasn't my son's wedding day, I'd knock you teeth out you anti-dentite bastard.

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Posted By: andy becker

wesley,
i am the worst speller on this board, perhaps the worst in the world.

i am sorry, very sorry, if my poor spelling led you to think there was hidden message. there most certainly was not.

i have edited previous posts for poor grammer , but i never catch my spelling mistakes.

i am not accusing anyone of anything, but i did state how i perceived the comment. that perception has not changed.

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Posted By: Wesley

No problem Andy. Sometimes I am just overly sensitive when I feel that my Sudanese friends are being disrespected even if they are not.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Lets compare and contrast:

Wesley responds in what I believe to be a very sarcastic manner noting his "over sensitivity" regarding all things Sudanese and Andy responds and apologizes in an hour and notes that he had no intent to disparage Wesley's Sudanese "friends."

We are now going on 18 hours since Joanne first commented regarding her take on this post. Not a single response from Mark.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

Maybe, just maybe, he's, oh, do I dare say it--- doing something else with his life?