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  #1  
Old 05-11-2019, 07:26 AM
sflayank sflayank is offline
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Default 1952 mantle probstein

PSA 5 and of course he says its nicer
How about the fact that Mickey is missing paper on his neck?.....what is PSA doing
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Old 05-11-2019, 07:48 AM
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  #3  
Old 05-11-2019, 07:50 AM
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SHOCKING!!!!
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  #4  
Old 05-11-2019, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflayank View Post
what is PSA doing
Making fools of collectors.
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  #5  
Old 05-11-2019, 08:20 AM
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Is there any chance that spot is somehow not on the card, I mean the asset?
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Old 05-11-2019, 08:40 AM
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Is there any chance that spot is somehow not on the card, I mean the asset?
Good recovery!
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  #7  
Old 05-11-2019, 08:45 AM
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It looks to me to be a print defect where something obstructed the print roller rather than paper loss. ETA, if it was paper loss it would be the gray cardboard stock color rather than white.

Last edited by Cliff Bowman; 05-11-2019 at 10:34 AM. Reason: Addition
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  #8  
Old 05-11-2019, 08:48 AM
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*removed after clarification by owner*
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  #9  
Old 05-11-2019, 09:04 AM
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White mole variation. Pretty scarce
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  #10  
Old 05-11-2019, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflayank View Post
PSA 5 and of course he says its nicer
How about the fact that Mickey is missing paper on his neck?.....what is PSA doing
Wow, here is a prime example of internet knee-jerk histrionics being passed off as fact, and in the process besmirching someone's card. Happened the other day here as well, in another thread.

I personally know the owner of this card, who discussed it with me. He sent it to PSA for review, asking specifically about the spot in question, and whether or not it was paper loss. PSA explicitly told him it was not paper loss. So the assertion in the opening post is simply not "fact," and to try and state opinion as fact in this case is just unfairly detrimental.

Last edited by MattyC; 05-11-2019 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 05-11-2019, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
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He sent it to PSA for review, asking specifically about the spot in question, and whether or not it was paper loss. PSA explicitly told him it was not paper loss.
What did they tell him it was?
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Old 05-11-2019, 10:18 AM
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I'll ping him and ask him; I was just worried for him about the paper loss issue and once he said it was good, I had to take another call before we could further our conversation. Off to grab a coffee and coach some little league now.
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  #13  
Old 05-11-2019, 10:27 AM
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You would think the seller could explain that in the listing.
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Old 05-11-2019, 10:29 AM
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Looks like something stuck on to it.
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  #15  
Old 05-11-2019, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyC View Post
Wow, here is a prime example of internet knee-jerk histrionics being passed off as fact, and in the process besmirching someone's card. Happened the other day here as well, in another thread.

I personally know the owner of this card, who discussed it with me. He sent it to PSA for review, asking specifically about the spot in question, and whether or not it was paper loss. PSA explicitly told him it was not paper loss. So the assertion in the opening post is simply not "fact," and to try and state opinion as fact in this case is just unfairly detrimental.
Matt must have an app that alerts him instantly to any comment anywhere online about a 52 Mantle.
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Old 05-11-2019, 10:43 AM
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Larry, Peter, John, and others--

There are many posts in this thread that are incorrect. Ted is 100% correct.

I am the owner of this 1952 Mickey Mantle.

This card was sold to me within a complete set of '52 Topps cards. When the owner sent the original scan it was in an extremely old PSA holder and he was completely up front that there was something on the card-- he had communicated with Joe Orlando at the time who said it was extra paper stuck to the card, but that decade ago PSA still agreed with the issued grade.

I shared many of the concerns that were in this thread, resulting in me contacting the CEO of CU, Joe Orlando, and President of PSA, Steve Sloan, to have the card reviewed for accuracy. They reviewed the card and disclosed that this is, in fact, extra paper and they agree with the original assessment of the card. At this point, they reholdered the card in the newest light house label and I sent it in to Probstein123 to sell.

I have personally held this card in my hand and spent time scrutinizing the card, the centering, the corners, the registration, and the extra paper on the card. The card is beautifully centered, strong for a 5, and I do hope it sells for a slight premium above other 5's due to its attractive attributes.

I really appreciate all of the community involvement in policing cards, auctions, and grades. I know this behavior comes from a place of love, appreciation, and devotion for the hobby.

That being said, I do not condone the false accusations of paper loss, an inaccurate grade, or any other comments or erroneous 'facts' that are being posted on this thread. These opinions have overstepped a line and crossed to inappropriate, false statements that may damage the sale of my item. I will only ask once that they cease immediately.

Kind Regards,

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  #17  
Old 05-11-2019, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean1125 View Post
Larry, Peter, John, and others--

There are many posts in this thread that are incorrect. Ted is 100% correct.

I am the owner of this 1952 Mickey Mantle.

This card was sold to me within a complete set of '52 Topps cards. When the owner sent the original scan it was in an extremely old PSA holder and he was completely up front that there was something on the card-- he had communicated with Joe Orlando at the time who said it was extra paper stuck to the card, but that decade ago PSA still agreed with the issued grade.

I shared many of the concerns that were in this thread, resulting in me contacting the CEO of CU, Joe Orlando, and President of PSA, Steve Sloan, to have the card reviewed for accuracy. They reviewed the card and disclosed that this is, in fact, extra paper and they agree with the original assessment of the card. At this point, they reholdered the card in the newest light house label and I sent it in to Probstein123 to sell.

I have personally held this card in my hand and spent time scrutinizing the card, the centering, the corners, the registration, and the extra paper on the card. The card is beautifully centered, strong for a 5, and I do hope it sells for a slight premium above other 5's due to its attractive attributes.

I really appreciate all of the community involvement in policing cards, auctions, and grades. I know this behavior comes from a place of love, appreciation, and devotion for the hobby.

That being said, I do not condone the false accusations of paper loss, an inaccurate grade, or any other comments or erroneous 'facts' that are being posted on this thread. These opinions have overstepped a line and crossed to inappropriate, false statements that may damage the sale of my item. I will only ask once that they cease immediately.

Kind Regards,

Sean
Sean -- I would respectfully suggest the auction description explain the spot?
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  #18  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:06 AM
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Peter,

That's a great idea. I will reach out and have that done.
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  #19  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:21 AM
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Default Mantle

I'm sorry but there is no way on this planet that a card either missing paper or having paper stuck to it can possibly grade 5......I'm still willing to bet its paper missing...but either way I would demand PSA refund my money..that's a joke if PSA says it's a 5 with paper stuck on it...is it stuck on with glue...or is it magic paper
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  #20  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:24 AM
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We have ALL at one time or another, been the benefactor of "gift" grades. Sean admits the card was in a super old holder, that was a time when the grading might not have been so stringent. If I had owned this card today, and sent it in for grading, would I have received a '5'? Probably not. But the onus is on PSA to stand by their grading, not Sean, who is doing nothing no different than any other seller here would do.
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  #21  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:27 AM
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The color of the spot looks similar to his uniform, if that is relevant.
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  #22  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:33 AM
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Paper loss, extra paper or whatever, this card is still over graded. At the very minimum, this card should have a PD qualifier. Of course PSA is not going to admit fault. Does anybody seriously believe they're going to stroke a check for $20K for some incompetent grader?

Edited to add: I've seen cards with extra paper before, so I know it happens. But the ink still applies over the extra paper as the sheet passes through, so that in the end it appears as a bubble on the surface. How did the "extra paper" miss the ink pass? I'm calling BS on this.

Last edited by vintagetoppsguy; 05-11-2019 at 11:41 AM.
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  #23  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflayank View Post
I'm sorry but there is no way on this planet that a card either missing paper or having paper stuck to it can possibly grade 5......
Agree. Frankly the white spot jumps out and is distracting as heck. Makes you wonder--if I had pulled that card back in the day and it truly was added paper, I would have rubbed or flicked or toyed with it in effort to get it off, probably thereby scratching the card or otherwise making it worse.
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  #24  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:42 AM
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Yes, you need to update the description AND, its overgraded due to that spot,whatever it is. Glws but you are hoping someone is buying the grade not the card, most likely not someone on these boards so these comments arent affecting your sale.

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  #25  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:04 PM
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For the record, I have no problem with Sean making as much money as he can on that Mantle, and although an updated description would be nice, that card's condition is so readily apparent that a buyer knows what he's getting. It's PSA that should be embarrassed, but PSA basically has no shame.
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Old 05-11-2019, 12:06 PM
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We may get more comments on an original unaltered card where the owner has now candidly discussed the clearly visible issues than on an altered card where the seller willfully refused to disclose the nonobvious alteration and invented some utter BS to justify it.
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  #27  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolemmings View Post
For the record, I have no problem with Sean making as much money as he can on that Mantle, and although an updated description would be nice, that card's condition is so readily apparent that a buyer knows what he's getting. It's PSA that should be embarrassed, but PSA basically has no shame.
Agreed. Sean was just the buyer of the collection. He even sent it back to PSA for reevaluation. He went above and beyond IMO. Most sellers wouldn't do that.
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  #28  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:13 PM
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Default Mantle ...further info ..card is even worse than I thought

Yes.seller make whatever you can
And yes buyer beware
That being said
Upon further inspection there is also paper missing to the left of the yankee logo
And there is writing on the back bottom left corner
If this is PSA they should be embarassed
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  #29  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:17 PM
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To me that looks like a tiny print mark not writing.
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  #30  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:40 PM
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Is card still available?
I don't see it on eBay.
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  #31  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:46 PM
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It seems to me that "extra paper" needs to be penalized as much as paper loss since if it wasn't you could glue paper over paper loss and improve the card's grade.
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  #32  
Old 05-11-2019, 03:25 PM
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Is card still available?
I don't see it on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-...gAAOSwTwtcpg08
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  #33  
Old 05-11-2019, 03:49 PM
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Default well paper loss or excess paper

in terms of grading - both are serious and should be treated in the same manner. Not regrading the card with a contemporary view of the imperfection seems self-serving for psa. I don't know Sean but appreciate his position and diligence. Personally I find it quite distracting while others may not.
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Old 05-11-2019, 06:44 PM
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Good recovery!


1

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  #35  
Old 05-11-2019, 07:13 PM
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probstein is still dead to me
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Old 05-11-2019, 08:42 PM
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1
Excuse me?
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Old 05-11-2019, 09:03 PM
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I guess I don't need a description to tell me that I see what looks to be paper loss (In my own opinion of course) on the front of the card and I would bid accordingly. I just feel the card is over graded because of the perceived paper loss and would move on to find a better example to spend my money on.

This is another classic example of buy the card not the holder but then again you wont see me spending 25K or more on a card unless I win the lottery or a rich uncle leaves me his fortune and I know of no such uncle so this ain't happening.

Good luck on the sale Sean.
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Old 05-12-2019, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflayank View Post
I'm sorry but there is no way on this planet that a card either missing paper or having paper stuck to it can possibly grade 5......I'm still willing to bet its paper missing...but either way I would demand PSA refund my money..that's a joke if PSA says it's a 5 with paper stuck on it...is it stuck on with glue...or is it magic paper
never understood when PSA grades something people say ' no way its a PSA X'

Well IT IS a PSA X....they graded it.

You can say no way its an EX condition card.....but its been graded by PSA already and its graded what is graded.. there of course is large spectrum within grades and sometimes that overlap frankly but for all of those 'nice cards for the grade' there has to be 'bad card for the grade' not talking abut any specific card...

so instead of saying no way thats a PSA X i guess you can say 'bad card for the grade' who knows.


i have mentioned this many times but without a TPG.......i cant imagine how many deals would get broken after sales over disagreement over what 'near mint' means after the buyer gets the card in hand..... at least PSA and TPG have probably prevented 30% if not more sales from not being broken
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Old 05-12-2019, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Edited to add: I've seen cards with extra paper before, so I know it happens. But the ink still applies over the extra paper as the sheet passes through, so that in the end it appears as a bubble on the surface. How did the "extra paper" miss the ink pass? I'm calling BS on this.
That's mostly correct. Mostly. But there are a lot of other things that can happen. The scan just isn't good enough to show them so I could tell.


Extra paper can get on the card after the ink is applied, and stick to the wet ink.

Paper can also get stuck on post production as well.

The cardstock on 52s is white paper over the darker base material. Th upper layer can be damaged, folded over, printed on then folded back, leaving a "blank spot" (VERY uncommon, it can happen, but I haven't seen one. )

There can be a paper "inclusion" some bit of stuff that gets into the paper while it's being made. Usually a gentle bump, they can also be less gentle and stick out more. And the ink gets rubbed off pretty easily. I have a T206 with a pretty rough but small inclusion, ink rubbed off, it looks like a tiny spot of paper loss, but it's smooth. It did have a strong impact on the grade.




I'm weird, and like that sort of stuff. If I had the dough to get a 52 Mantle, this would interest me.
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Old 05-12-2019, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
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It does not appear Rick has amended the description yet.
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  #41  
Old 05-12-2019, 02:43 PM
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Default Mantle probstein..a side note

Has anybody ever noticed his instructions?
Do you realize according to probstein if you DONT pay for an item he will REDUCE shipping
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  #42  
Old 05-12-2019, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
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Looks like something stuck on to it.
For once in a lifetime, I agree with Jed, I mean Ted
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  #43  
Old 05-12-2019, 05:57 PM
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For once in a lifetime, I agree with Jed, I mean Ted
Wow, even a blinnd squirrel finds a nut!

For the record if a seller cracks as PSA MC card, he can resell in an SGC holder without disclosing. Betcha like that one too.

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Old 05-12-2019, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
Wow, even a blinnd squirrel finds a nut!

For the record if a seller cracks as PSA MC card, he can resell in an SGC holder without disclosing. Betcha like that one too.

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Which card are you referring to Jed? Got to love the English and spelling....

Last edited by CMIZ5290; 05-12-2019 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:17 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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For a while, I thought you we a rapper from orange county. Everyone kept referring to the MC/OC Miz

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Old 05-12-2019, 06:23 PM
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CMIZ5290 CMIZ5290 is offline
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Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
For a while, I thought you we a rapper from orange county. Everyone kept referring to the MC/OC Miz

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Can you say WTF? I can.... What in the Hell are you talking about? It is confirmed, you've got the brains of a fire hydrant...Congrats....By the way pal, how many straight grade T206s would you like to buy (without credit of course)?

Last edited by CMIZ5290; 05-12-2019 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:31 PM
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That's what I thought, sweet dreams......
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:48 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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Originally Posted by CMIZ5290 View Post
Which card are you referring to Jed? Got to love the English and spelling....
Now in and sgc 7.5 holder on the bst boards.


When you have to quote "straight " grades and their sold prices, something might be "crooked"
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Last edited by Republicaninmass; 05-12-2019 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 05-12-2019, 08:09 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
Now in and sgc 7.5 holder on the bst boards.


When you have to quote "straight " grades and their sold prices, something might be "crooked"


What sort of problem is there? It's not like people can't see it isn't centered well. and 7.5 seems pretty reasonable.
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Old 05-12-2019, 08:10 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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What sort of problem is there? It's not like people can't see it isn't centered well. and 7.5 seems pretty reasonable.
Nothing, hence why I wrote there is nothing wrong with it earlier.

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