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  #1  
Old 05-02-2019, 06:01 AM
jayshum jayshum is offline
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Default PWCC vault?

I received an email from PWCC that I could use their vault as the address to ship any purchases from them, eBay, other auctions, etc. By doing this, I would avoid paying sales tax since the address for the vault is in Oregon.

Does anyone use this? If so, can you provide me with more information about how it works and what costs there are associated with it? The email mentions an ingestion fee equal to 0.5% of the market value of the card for the first year of storage, but then it says something about requesting fulfillment at any time after ingestion which is usually 5 to 7 business days. Any explanation of how this actually works would be appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 05-02-2019, 06:34 AM
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You should speak to an accountant before you do this. Something advertised as existing solely to help you avoid paying sales tax requires some professional advice. As itís a PWCC invention Iíd probably speak to three CPAs.
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  #3  
Old 05-02-2019, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
You should speak to an accountant before you do this. Something advertised as existing solely to help you avoid paying sales tax requires some professional advice. As it’s a PWCC invention I’d probably speak to three CPAs.
Hey Jeff, You think 3 is enough? Sounds a bit sketchy

And as an aside, I tend to get fulfillment less than 5-7 days after ingestion!
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  #4  
Old 05-02-2019, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
You should speak to an accountant before you do this. Something advertised as existing solely to help you avoid paying sales tax requires some professional advice. As itís a PWCC invention Iíd probably speak to three CPAs.
1 for each sticker?
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  #5  
Old 05-02-2019, 07:27 AM
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My experience says that states arenít too accepting of transparent efforts to avoid paying sales tax. Just sayin.
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  #6  
Old 05-02-2019, 07:58 AM
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Lots of things that are set up to avoid or reduce taxes seem more form over substance. It's hard for me to believe PWCC is out there publicizing this without having vetted it with legal and accounting advisers. Then again...
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  #7  
Old 05-02-2019, 08:08 AM
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I received the same e-mail from P.W.C.C. They mean well, but as a N.J. resident, this state are very strict about their state tax so I would not be interested in putting my cards in a their vault. Also, heaven for bid, something happens to the company or the state steps in & cleans out what's in the vault? I can be affected. You are correct, this should not be brought out out publicly. The whole idea is too risky for me.
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  #8  
Old 05-02-2019, 08:18 AM
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I’ve been fortunate to visit 49 states in my lifetime missing only Oregon.

If I pack up my collection and send it to the vault, would I be able to visit them???

If not, I’ll just send them to Zimbabwe? I’ve never been there either.

The idea of a remote collection intrigues me.
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  #9  
Old 05-02-2019, 09:02 AM
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I don't know what to think about this vault. What happens if you die and no one knows what is in "the vault". I mean, it's an interesting concept. Just too many unkowns.
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Old 05-02-2019, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
I don't know what to think about this vault. What happens if you die and no one knows what is in "the vault". I mean, it's an interesting concept. Just too many unkowns.
it's kinda similar to the idea of owning a part of a card?

Personally it's not something I'd be interested in...more of a concept for "investors."


If you buy a high buck card from PWCC...save on taxes intially...with the intent to resell through PWCC at a later date.

Last edited by ullmandds; 05-02-2019 at 09:10 AM.
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  #11  
Old 05-02-2019, 09:25 AM
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I don't know what to think about this vault. What happens if you die and no one knows what is in "the vault". I mean, it's an interesting concept. Just too many unkowns.
.... and can someone with a bottle of Peach Schnapps open "The Vault"?
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Old 05-02-2019, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
it's kinda similar to the idea of owning a part of a card?

Personally it's not something I'd be interested in...more of a concept for "investors."


If you buy a high buck card from PWCC...save on taxes intially...with the intent to resell through PWCC at a later date.
Right -- you never have to see or touch the stupid card. It's just an asset on a balance sheet.
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Old 05-02-2019, 09:46 AM
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Right -- you never have to see or touch the stupid card. It's just an asset on a balance sheet.
exactly!!
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  #14  
Old 05-02-2019, 09:50 AM
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Right -- you never have to see or touch the stupid card. It's just an asset on a balance sheet.
Wait...cards are stupid??
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  #15  
Old 05-02-2019, 09:57 AM
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Wait...cards are stupid??
My cards aren't stupid, they're just a little slow.
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  #16  
Old 05-02-2019, 10:27 AM
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my cards ride the short bus to the vault!
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  #17  
Old 05-02-2019, 10:29 AM
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my cards ride the short bus to the vault!
Where they are promptly ingested.
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  #18  
Old 05-02-2019, 10:33 AM
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Will card owners be allowed to come and spend time with their cards in the vault?
If so, perhaps an Airbnb or Extended Stay America could be built on site.
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  #19  
Old 05-02-2019, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
It's hard for me to believe PWCC is out there publicizing this without having vetted it with legal and accounting advisers. Then again...
Ya think? https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/vault Only concept they highlight is the sales tax-free state. See for yourself.

Dunno about anyone else but I would feel much better leaving my stuff at home or at a bank.
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Old 05-02-2019, 10:57 AM
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They now also offer investment advice.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/investment-advising
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  #21  
Old 05-02-2019, 01:34 PM
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They now also offer investment advice.



https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/investment-advising
This all really feels like the excess before the collapse.

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  #22  
Old 05-02-2019, 01:50 PM
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This all really feels like the excess before the collapse.

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I'm with you Carl.....Does any other collectible do all this?? Comics? Coins? Art???
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  #23  
Old 05-02-2019, 02:13 PM
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I'm with you Carl.....Does any other collectible do all this?? Comics? Coins? Art???

From what I've heard, most dealers/auctions at the high end of things regularly work with clients to help them build a collection that meets their goals. If those goals are primarily investment related then that's what they do.


A good regular brick and mortar dealer does the same thing, just at a lower level, and with less formality. The guys I used to go to back in the day would occasionally hand me a Goudey Ruth and tell me "this is $100 you should buy it" Sadly that was advice I never took.
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  #24  
Old 05-02-2019, 02:29 PM
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I have a PO Box in the Dominican Republic. Anyone wants to list me as the owner and have high priced cards sent directly to my "vault" please reach out for details. And I will charge a small price for this service.
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  #25  
Old 05-02-2019, 02:55 PM
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https://www.etopps.com/
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  #26  
Old 05-02-2019, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
From what I've heard, most dealers/auctions at the high end of things regularly work with clients to help them build a collection that meets their goals. If those goals are primarily investment related then that's what they do.





A good regular brick and mortar dealer does the same thing, just at a lower level, and with less formality. The guys I used to go to back in the day would occasionally hand me a Goudey Ruth and tell me "this is $100 you should buy it" Sadly that was advice I never took.
That all makes sense, but the PWCC Investment Advisory board, complete with Merrill Lynch looking photo is a bit much. I'm not saying it's predatory, but it feels a wee bit over the top. Would like to see their bona fides.

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  #27  
Old 05-02-2019, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
I don't know what to think about this vault. What happens if you die and no one knows what is in "the vault". I mean, it's an interesting concept. Just too many unkowns.
That's why we have Geraldo Rivera. He can make amends for the Al Capone fiasco, and your cards might even get some TV exposure.
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  #28  
Old 05-02-2019, 06:46 PM
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Wheres Dpeck? How can these guys be selling unsecured " investments" with no license, private placement memorandum, etc. Seems like a whole lotta good ideas, poorly executed .
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  #29  
Old 05-02-2019, 06:56 PM
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Maybe everyone should try to understand what services come with the vault before turning negative. Everyone seems to be such know-it-alls before knowing the facts. The vaultís primary mission is not a sales tax avoidance initiative. Iíve personally seen the Vault and believe the business strategy behind it is brilliant. Just my opinion from someone who owns and runs a very large business. And yes, I will take full advantage of these services. Do whatís right for you and draw your own conclusions.

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Old 05-02-2019, 07:19 PM
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This hobby is so f'd.
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  #31  
Old 05-02-2019, 07:25 PM
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Maybe everyone should try to understand what services come with the vault before turning negative. Everyone seems to be such know-it-alls before knowing the facts. The vaultís primary mission is not a sales tax avoidance initiative. Iíve personally seen the Vault and believe the business strategy behind it is brilliant. Just my opinion from someone who owns and runs a very large business. And yes, I will take full advantage of these services. Do whatís right for you and draw your own conclusions.

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Old 05-02-2019, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradyhill View Post
Maybe everyone should try to understand what services come with the vault before turning negative. Everyone seems to be such know-it-alls before knowing the facts. The vault’s primary mission is not a sales tax avoidance initiative. I’ve personally seen the Vault and believe the business strategy behind it is brilliant. Just my opinion from someone who owns and runs a very large business. And yes, I will take full advantage of these services. Do what’s right for you and draw your own conclusions.

Brady
Ok, enlighten us. What is the great point of this other than tax avoidance? I received their email too, and that that seemed to be the clear thrust of it. Maybe I need my secret decoder ring on this one.

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  #33  
Old 05-02-2019, 07:35 PM
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13 posts...and what do you get


Another post praising the vault of Brett
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Old 05-02-2019, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradyhill View Post
Maybe everyone should try to understand what services come with the vault before turning negative. Everyone seems to be such know-it-alls before knowing the facts. The vaultís primary mission is not a sales tax avoidance initiative. Iíve personally seen the Vault and believe the business strategy behind it is brilliant. Just my opinion from someone who owns and runs a very large business. And yes, I will take full advantage of these services. Do whatís right for you and draw your own conclusions.

Brady
you've SEEN "the vault?" Is it real and SPECTACULAR???
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Old 05-02-2019, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
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Full name.when giving.an.opion of.person or service.reqiired
His ID is his full name. He hasn't posted much here I guess but certainly a known collector.

And yes, I could see where a secure storage facility could be attractive to someone with substantial value in cards who didn't care about access to them; or lived relatively close, or whose intent was to resell through PWCC. On the other hand, as Steve points out, PWCC certainly has emphasized the sales tax aspect in its promotion.
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Old 05-02-2019, 07:46 PM
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Ok, enlighten us. What is the great point of this other than tax avoidance? I received their email too, and that that seemed to be the clear thrust of it. Maybe I need my secret decoder ring on this one.
Tax avoidance is OK. Tax evasion is not.

This may be legal the same way that buying items in a tax-free state is fine. Itís just when you bring them back to your home state that the Use tax kicks in.
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Old 05-02-2019, 07:51 PM
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https://www.oregonlive.com/business/...ing-cards.html
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  #38  
Old 05-02-2019, 07:52 PM
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Default More info

I looked on the PWCC website for more info, and there are fees charged for any cards sent to the vault unless they are from a PWCC auction, so on top of the 0.5% storage fee that was mentioned in the e-mail I received, the following fees also apply. For non-graded cards, there is a $10 minimum fee so for a card under around $140-150, it looks like that fee would offset any sales tax savings.

Archival Fee.
Graded Cards Ė 1% of market value is charged at intake of assets (minimum fee of $2 per asset and a maximum fee of $100 per asset). Note: completely graded sets, mixed grading company sets or sets registered with PSA, SGC, and/or Beckett use the same ingestion process as single graded cards.

Non-Graded Cards Ė 1% of market value is charged at intake of assets (minimum fee of $10 per asset and maximum fee of $100 per asset).
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Old 05-02-2019, 07:55 PM
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.... and can someone with a bottle of Peach Schnapps open "The Vault"?
Can't believe this got no love
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Old 05-02-2019, 07:57 PM
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Can't believe this got no love
Where's Sloate the great Seinfeld fan?
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Old 05-02-2019, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayshum View Post
I looked on the PWCC website for more info, and there are fees charged for any cards sent to the vault unless they are from a PWCC auction, so on top of the 0.5% storage fee that was mentioned in the e-mail I received, the following fees also apply. For non-graded cards, there is a $10 minimum fee so for a card under around $140-150, it looks like that fee would offset any sales tax savings.

Archival Fee.
Graded Cards Ė 1% of market value is charged at intake of assets (minimum fee of $2 per asset and a maximum fee of $100 per asset). Note: completely graded sets, mixed grading company sets or sets registered with PSA, SGC, and/or Beckett use the same ingestion process as single graded cards.

Non-Graded Cards Ė 1% of market value is charged at intake of assets (minimum fee of $10 per asset and maximum fee of $100 per asset).
Ingestion just seems like the wrong word. I think they use it multiple times.
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  #42  
Old 05-02-2019, 08:31 PM
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For those who don't know Brady he had one of the best tables at the Chicago national and is well known and respected in the hobby. I completely agree and will be using this service as well. Many of my cards just sit in a bank vault as it is and I have to pay to ship and insure them to pwcc when it's time to sell. And if shipping them to and storing them in Oregon saves on sales tax as well then i will not be surprised if many collectors start using the vault. Perhaps even a few of those criticizing in this thread.
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Old 05-02-2019, 08:41 PM
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I totally agree that this sounds like crap that happens before a collapse. Reminds me of the dot.com bubble and the ďnew economyĒ spew that was going on at the turn of the century. Look out below!!! Maybe hide in the vault until the crash is over??
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Old 05-02-2019, 08:43 PM
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oy gavault!
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  #45  
Old 05-02-2019, 08:45 PM
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For those who don't know Brady he had one of the best tables at the Chicago national and is well known and respected in the hobby.
In fact, he is featured in this week's Sports Collector's Digest.
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Old 05-02-2019, 08:45 PM
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On a 200K card sale, the sales tax savings for a NY buyer is about 18K if the card is instead shipped to a vault in Oregon. Same card sitting in a Citibank safe deposit box in NYC, surrounded by alarms and guards, costs the buyer 18K extra. The main thrust of this visionary program is tax avoidance. Period. Again, Iím niot saying itís illegal as Iím not a CPA but to suggest that the tax savings on pricey cards is not the main lure of this PWCC vault is disingenuous.
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Old 05-02-2019, 09:46 PM
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CuriousGeorge CuriousGeorge is offline
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I had 2 very reputable CPAís look into the vault and both strongly advised me not to use it. It is being advertised as a way to avoid paying state tax and they were not comfortable with that verbiage. While I suggest anyone considering using them to get your own guidance, I feel much more comfortable not being involved. And thatís only regarding the tax issue, I have not even gotten into other potential land mines that could happen.
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Old 05-03-2019, 03:32 AM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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But the guy with one of the best tables at the national thinks its great, sign me up
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Old 05-03-2019, 04:42 AM
Spike Spike is offline
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Sounds a lot like practices from the fine art market bleeding into baseball cards, so PWCC can process ongoing transactions without buyers and sellers ever seeing their "art investments" or needing to remove them from storage. If baseball collecting were more international, we could expect a similar vault on a Cayman Island for further tax savings. Perhaps they offer that kind of big-spender service in a less-publicized way? (While not an art expert myself, Google provides a lot of info on the world of fine art markets.)
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Last edited by Spike; 05-03-2019 at 04:43 AM.
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Old 05-03-2019, 06:15 AM
frankrizzo29 frankrizzo29 is offline
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I know that when OH residents file their state income tax return that they have the ability to list all purchases made during that tax year in which they did not pay any sales tax. Any sales tax that should have been paid is than added to their income tax liability and paid at that time with their tax return. I am pretty confident that all other states have the same thing when filing their returns. However, I am not sure how to handle this for states like Florida that have no state income tax. ( I must admit that I am surprised that of all the CPAs who were consulted that no one mentioned this).

With that said, rather than bashing the PWCC Vault for their poor marketing tactics, I am really curious to hear why people should or should not use the PWCC Vault.
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