1927 Yankees team ball forgery

[earlywynnfan]

David, it's not like you to be so quiet. Can you tell us how the artist copied your ball? Has it been in your possession for a long time?

Regards,
Ken

[thetruthisoutthere]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I recently received an Ebay email stating that Ebay would no longer allow sellers to list replica coins. Maybe Ebay should consider banning replica signed baseballs also.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I recently received an Ebay email stating that Ebay would no longer allow sellers to list replica coins. Maybe Ebay should consider banning replica signed baseballs also.

eBay should also ban replica tickets. There seems to be a growing trend of sellers listing more and more of these. Everyone mentions that they are replicas, but it's just a matter of time that someone unscrupulous idiot buys and relists it as authentic. There undoubtedly is collector out there that will sadly get duped by the ruse....

I personally do not like replicas, period. Replicas = fake!!

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

eBay should also ban replica tickets. There seems to be a growing trend of sellers listing more and more of these. Everyone mentions that they are replicas, but it's just a matter of time that someone unscrupulous idiot buys and relists it as authentic. There undoubtedly is collector out there that will sadly get duped by the ruse....

I personally do not like replicas, period. Replicas = fake!!

To play devil's advocate, replicas can help fans on a budget build a display. But, IMO replicas should be indelibly marked.

It was my understanding that replica coins had to be marked by law... otherwise it is a counterfeit.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

To play devil's advocate, replicas can help fans on a budget build a display. But, IMO replicas should be indelibly marked.

It was my understanding that replica coins had to be marked by law... otherwise it is a counterfeit.

I wholeheartedly agree with the marking of replicas as such. There will always be those unscrupulous sellers though who either remove the marking or photograph in such a way that it doesn't show and then conveniently leave out words like "original" from their description. So when they're selling a "Babe Ruth Autograph Baseball," well, technically it is a baseball that displays a Babe Ruth autograph on one panel. The seller's feedback usually won't stand up to too many dupes like that, it happens in all areas of collecting, but if the items are marked as replicas, the marking (or scratched-out remainder thereof) should at least raise the necessary red flags for the buyer.

In David's defense on this Ruth ball issue, as Brandon pointed out previously the counterfeiter replicator only needs a photograph of a real signed ball to go from, which means that all it took was one case of David showing off his ball in a public forum with a nice, large, close-up photo of it, and the counterfeiter artist who produces these has all the ammo he needs.

[Scott Garner]

In David's defense on this Ruth ball issue, as Brandon pointed out previously the counterfeiter replicator only needs a photograph of a real signed ball to go from, which means that all it took was one case of David showing off his ball in a public forum with a nice, large, close-up photo of it, and the counterfeiter artist who produces these has all the ammo he needs.

Like Lance!

[thekingofclout]

I've posted my Gehrig signed post card several times over the last few years. Now, can a "replicator and/or forger" then use my autograph to create a single signed sweet-spot on an original c. 1930's slightly toned American League Ball?

gehrigjimmycloseup.jpg

[yanks12025]

Henson,
I know you cant talk about it to much. But I'm curious how you print a auto on a ball or a bat.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

David, it's not like you to be so quiet. Can you tell us how the artist copied your ball? Has it been in your possession for a long time?

Regards,
Ken

I think that would be the realization that, at worst, he has the same replica autograph, albeit on a better ball. Or, at best, this ball has lost much of its value with there being 'near exact' duplicates easily available.

[henson1855]

To King , I make my own repo balls, I buy my balls custom stitched in red/black or red/blue, it would take me about 10 minutes to replicate that sample on the sweetspot of a baseball.I do not sell my creations, or even really show them,the photo I posted yesterday in the other thread was the first and only time, they are for the most part just impossible to find balls or non existant combos like Waddell and Plank or McGinnity and Matty.Today, I did a 1920 Indians team ball with Chapman and a Janis Joplin single signed Giles ball, I can use the same process for bats as well,keep in mind as I said, I am not making these for resale it's just a hobbly not looking to ruffle anyone's feathers.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by henson1855

To King , I make my own repo balls, I buy my balls custom stitched in red/black or red/blue, it would take me about 10 minutes to replicate that sample on the sweetspot of a baseball.I do not sell my creations, or even really show them,the photo I posted yesterday in the other thread was the first and only time, they are for the most part just impossible to find balls or non existant combos like Waddell and Plank or McGinnity and Matty.Today, I did a 1920 Indians team ball with Chapman and a Janis Joplin single signed Giles ball, I can use the same process for bats as well,keep in mind as I said, I am not making these for resale it's just a hobbly not looking to ruffle anyone's feathers.

That's amazing Mike. Thanks for being so straightforward. That's a quality that I deeply respect. Best regards, Jimmy

BTW... Those bats make great display pieces.

[henson1855]

Thank you for the kind words, I bought the bats through Louisville Slugger, they are the dark brown ones with the gold foil branding, I really had to spend some time on them to de-modernize them , but it was a heck of alot cheaper than trying to find vintage store bats that have become so expensive.

[mark evans]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

I think that would be the realization that, at worst, he has the same replica autograph, albeit on a better ball. Or, at best, this ball has lost much of its value with there being 'near exact' duplicates easily available.

I don't see how the existence of 'replica' balls would much affect the value of an authentic Ruth ball. The larger problem, especially in today's 'climate,' could be establishing the authenticity of the Ruth ball to the satisfaction of potential buyers.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by mark evans

I don't see how the existence of 'replica' balls would much affect the value of an authentic Ruth ball. The larger problem, especially in today's 'climate,' could be establishing the authenticity of the Ruth ball to the satisfaction of potential buyers.

I think the previous posters were referring specifically to the particular ball used as a template for the replicas. In and of itself, the value isn't diminished. If a collector has seen 100 replica balls that look very much to exactly like the original though, there will be that bit of doubt that makes them wonder if this one really is authentic, or if the replicas have just gotten better than their discerning eyes. Doubt in the mind of the buyer, however minor, will always affect the price they are willing to pay for an item.

As another example, consider autopen signatures. Presidents and other famous individuals have certain known autopen signature patterns. The pattern or template is based on an actual signature, so somewhere (presumably, for the sake of this example) there exists that actual hand-signed autograph that the autopen template was based on. Yet if you offered that original hand-signed autograph to a collector, it would be difficult for him to dispel from his mind all the autopen duplicates of that signature he had seen in order to pull the trigger on the purchase, despite the signature being 100% authentic.

The same thing happens in other areas of collectibles too, where counterfeits of certain items are so prolific that it becomes harder for a buyer to gain the necessary confidence when an authentic example comes up for sale.

[mark evans]

I think we are saying much the same thing. A person who wants and can afford an authentic Ruth ball is not going to find a 'replica' ball very satisfying. However, given the 'sophistication' of the replicas, potential purchasers are likely to insist upon a high standard of proof of authenticity before making the purchase.

[batsballsbases]

Hi David,
I see in the other thread that they used your ball as a reference in the Halls Of Shame . Love to hear your story about that. Al

[David Atkatz]

I wonder. Is the Grabowski signature that appears on my ball a replication, too?



None of the fountain pen "structure" appears on the replica balls--the double lines produced by the split nib, the places where one line crosses another, etc. All of this is easily visible on my ball because the pen was relatively dry--it did not have a strong ink flow. There are pen impressions, as well. There is no doubt the ball was signed.

i posted large close-ups of this ball--and other autographs--here years ago. I will NOT be doing so again.