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Old 09-13-2019, 07:00 PM
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JollyElm JollyElm is offline
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Default Weird 1967 Willie Mays Anomaly(?)

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark...

A while back, I showed how a few 1962 green tint numbers 'always' appear thinner than normal, and it was clearly due to the cutting process at the factory and not a mass trimming operation undertaken by collectors from all across the country (LOL). Well, recently I was looking at a decently priced 1967 #200 Willie Mays card and I saw it was swimming in the PSA holder. It was way short side to side, and that gave me great pause to buy it. Perhaps someone PWCC'ed it?? I dunno, so I began looking at all the PSA versions of the card on ebay (none of these are mine and I have no idea who is selling them), and to my great surprise I saw that the vast majority of them (clearly over 90%) were short side to side. The amount of space varies, but the same anomaly occurs across all grades. Does anyone have any insight into this situation? (Assuming the PSA slabs are all the perfect size) If the cards were all cut thin, then other cards in the Mays column/row should suffer from the same malady. I haven't looked into it.

These screen grabs might not be large enough to clearly tell, but every single one of them has the card definitively short side to side (and this was just a quick ebay and auction prices realized search, not an in-depth investigation whatsoever)...



s-l1600-2 copy.jpgs-l1600-15.jpg




Check out my bucket(s). Virtually everything is available for trade:

I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.
Casey Stengel
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:54 PM
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sox1903wschamp sox1903wschamp is offline
Michael S
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 905

43085306 is actually my card and it's not swimming in the holder. I can't speak to the others

And people will believe what they want but this card was purchased from the Card Collectors Co, back in 1967. Sat in a shoebox till around 1980 where it was transferred to a plastic sheet. It sat in the plastic sheet until Jan 2019 when I picked up the collection in Kansas City from a man who collected it as a youth, kept it with a 67 Giant team set (in the plastic pages). I sent it for grading and that is the complete history of the card.

Again, people will be what they wish but the knowing the history of the card is really cool to me. Especially in these times. Carry on!
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:57 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 232

I don't know about this Mays specifically as I only have 1 copy of this card to compare (it is very slightly undersized, low grade crap condition that I can't imagine anyone would trim), but this is normal. I've noticed many 50's/60's cards tend to run slightly small or large (I would presume the cards location on the sheet is why that specific card tends to run one way or the other). If you take a stack of cards, almost no 2 are exactly the same dimensions if you look very closely or have the ability to measure to small fractions of inches/millimeters. Taking out my 2018 Topps, even with today's tighter factory tolerances, they are all ever so slightly different heights, enough to see with the human eye in good light if you get up close.

If I may say so, I think this is largely why the grading companies struggle with ID'ing trimming - any tolerance based on card size (no matter how you set it) will miss some trimmed cards and falsely ID cards that aren't actually trimmed.
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Old 09-13-2019, 11:08 PM
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JollyElm JollyElm is offline
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I hope people aren't mistaking what I am saying. It seems pretty obvious that a good number/percentage of these cards came out of the factory thin side to side. It seems a real stretch to believe that they were all trimmed. Certainly one here and there has been trimmed by someone trying to game the system, but I think there was clearly a cutting problem at the printers/Topps plant.
Check out my bucket(s). Virtually everything is available for trade:

I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.
Casey Stengel

Last edited by JollyElm; 09-13-2019 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 09-14-2019, 09:33 AM
moeson moeson is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 368

I have 3 raw 1967 Mays (NFS) that were taken directly from freshly opened cello packs at an early 70s card show in NY. Two of the 3 are just slightly short, but not to the extent that they would "swim" in a holder.
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