More additions at PSA Autograph Authentication

[RichardSimon]

Rich Albersheim has now joined the PSA autograph authentication team.
That makes three vintage dealers who are now out of the buy/sell business in the last couple of months.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Rich Albersheim has now joined the PSA autograph authentication team.
That makes three vintage dealers who are now out of the buy/sell business in the last couple of months.

Auctions are the dealers now.

[earlywynnfan]

Are they actually out of the business, or will they continue to sell?

I've enjoyed Albersheim's recent auctions, I'd be sorry to see them go.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Are they actually out of the business, or will they continue to sell?

I've enjoyed Albersheim's recent auctions, I'd be sorry to see them go.

I believe it is the policy of PSA that they have to give up their business.
I am not 100% certain but I think that is true.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I believe it is the policy of PSA that they have to give up their business.
I am not 100% certain but I think it is true.

I assume this policy started after Spence left?

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Rich Albersheim has now joined the PSA autograph authentication team.
That makes three vintage dealers who are now out of the buy/sell business in the last couple of months.

Hi Richard,
So I'm thinking that's Rich Albersheim, Phil Marks, but who is the 3rd vintage dealer?
Just curious...

[Republicaninmass]

Bill corcoran and kevin keating

Im not sure where Phil Marks went

[Klrdds]

The first 2 are
Kevin Keating and Bill Corcoran.
My understanding was Bill had to give up his business but Keating kept his.
No Phil Marks.
But the authentication process is still basically unchanged. They seem to be there only for the older and rarer items . Your ordinary players , including the Ruth's , Cy Young's , Mantle's, Jackie Robinson's etc still follow the same pattern.

[khw]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

The first 2 are
Kevin Keating and Bill Corcoran.
My understanding was Bill had to give up his business but Keating kept his.
No Phil Marks.
But the authentication process is still basically unchanged. They seem to be there only for the older and rarer items . Your ordinary players , including the Ruth's , Cy Young's , Mantle's, Jackie Robinson's etc still follow the same pattern.

But the authentication process is still basically unchanged. They seem to be there only for the older and rarer items . Your ordinary players , including the Ruth's , Cy Young's , Mantle's, Jackie Robinson's etc still follow the same pattern.


can you expand on this

[tazdmb]

Kevin Keating (Quality Autographs) is alive and well and I just e-mailed Kevin last month about an item. I feel there is an independence issue here.

[Michael B]

Albersheim's website is still active. He appears to still have listings on ebay under the listing name extremelyrare.

[Klrdds]

Kirk
The way I heard it is working is like this . Send in an obscure or super rare autograph, for example Ed Delahanty , for a LOA and Keating , Corcoran and now I guess Albershiem will look at it and render an opinion but send in a regular one like I mentioned earlier and their regular authenticators who are still there will evaluate those as in the past .
It is inconceivable that K, C and A will look at each and every autograph submitted since relocation was not required for them , and the sheer number of submissions make it impossible to individually inspect and cert each and every submission .
So things are basically unchanged in their process just different names, albeit very respected names , on the pre- printed LOA.
Those 3 have a vast trove of knowledge and years of experience with many loyal customers,and I have bought from all 3 for over 20 years and have nothing against them for going to PSA but unless it is a rare one or a PSA LOA is required to sell an item I trust this site as well as Jim Stinson and Richard Simon as much as those 3 at this point since you don't really know who will be looking at your item and issuing the LOA at PSA now.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Bill corcoran and kevin keating

Im not sure where Phil Marks went

Phil Marks has told me that he only is selling PSA slabbed cards since the National last year.

[Republicaninmass]

Phil sold\is selling everything off.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[OlderTheBetter]

What is the status of John Reznikoff per PSA? Appraiser, authenticator, dealer and accused shill bidder?

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by OlderTheBetter

What is the status of John Reznikoff per PSA? Appraiser, authenticator, dealer and accused shill bidder?

According to his website:

Currently authenticates and consults for:
UACC, the largest trade organization in the field, since 2006. First approved authenticator/appraiser, and sole person designated to opine on “Famous Figures”.
PSA/DNA, the #1 authenticating service, since 2004, for American & historical autographs. PSA/DNA is the largest and most respected service of its kind, and the last word in authentication.
James Spence Authentication (JSA), the #2 authentication service, since 2006.
R&R Auctions, the largest monthly autograph auction in the world, since 2003.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

The first 2 are
Kevin Keating and Bill Corcoran.
My understanding was Bill had to give up his business but Keating kept his.
No Phil Marks.
But the authentication process is still basically unchanged. They seem to be there only for the older and rarer items . Your ordinary players , including the Ruth's , Cy Young's , Mantle's, Jackie Robinson's etc still follow the same pattern.

I had gotten reliable information that Bill Corcoran had to give up his business and I had not heard about Kevin and Rich having to do so but it seemed logical to me that if Bill had to do that then the others would also.
It seems strange to me that Bill has to give up his business and Kevin and Rich do not.
And are you sure about the authentication process? I would think that Ruth, Robinson, Young, etc. would be the ones that would require their opinions rather than a very occasional Ed Delahanty or Joe Kelley.
If these three are not looking at Ruth, Robinson, etc. then who is? I am sure the submissions of Ruth, Robinson,etc far outnumber the very, very occasional Ed Delahanty.
And if they are only looking at the occasional very rare signature would Bill actually give up his business for that??

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I had gotten reliable information that Bill Corcoran had to give up his business and I had not heard about Kevin and Rich having to do so but it seemed logical to me that if Bill had to do that then the others would also.
It seems strange to me that Bill has to give up his business and Kevin and Rich do not.
And are you sure about the authentication process? I would think that Ruth, Robinson, Young, etc. would be the ones that would require their opinions rather than a very occasional Ed Delahanty or Joe Kelley.
If these three are not looking at Ruth, Robinson, etc. then who is? I am sure the submissions of Ruth, Robinson,etc far outnumber the very, very occasional Ed Delahanty.
And if they are only looking at the occasional very rare signature would Bill actually give up his business for that??

These are good points. I would guess the amount of income given to each would play a roll in these answers. It would make sense that one of them would look at Ruth, cu young, gehrig etc.

[RichardSimon]

If you go to the PSA website and look at the list of their experts it states this about Kevin Keating: "He has been an autograph consultant for PSA/DNA Authentication Services since 2009, where he is now a full-time authenticator."
Though the site does not use those exact words in their descriptions of Rich Albersheim or Bill Corcoran. Though like I said before Bill Corcoran gave up his business and I would assume he is a full time authenticator. Nobody else in their listing of experts is claiming the qualifications to inspect vintage sports autographs.
I just noticed that the site also lists titles for their people. Consultant/authenticators and authenticators are their descriptions. Kevin, Bill, Rich and Zack Rullo are all listed as authenticators. A couple of others are listed as consultant/authenticators.
http://www.psacard.com/experts/

[Klrdds]

I guess the point of the matter is that as usual with PSA no one actually knows who is authenticating what and by what means they are doing it. I mean how do Bill in FL , Kevin in VA , and Rich in NV actually physically see and inspect and authenticate each item submitted to PSA because of their geographical distribution ?
That is what my friend told me about their "authenticating" process and certing the rare ones versus the more common ones , lest we forget that PSA authenticates more than just baseball autographs and with varying turn around times.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

If you go to the PSA website and look at the list of their experts it states this about Kevin Keating: "He has been an autograph consultant for PSA/DNA Authentication Services since 2009, where he is now a full-time authenticator."
Though the site does not use those exact words in their descriptions of Rich Albersheim or Bill Corcoran. Though like I said before Bill Corcoran gave up his business and I would assume he is a full time authenticator. Nobody else in their listing of experts is claiming the qualifications to inspect vintage sports autographs.
I just noticed that the site also lists titles for their people. Consultant/authenticators and authenticators are their descriptions. Kevin, Bill, Rich and Zack Rullo are all listed as authenticators. A couple of others are listed as consultant/authenticators.
http://www.psacard.com/experts/

Interesting... full time indicates that they are well.. full time rather than consultants on ultra rare stuff to me.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

I guess the point of the matter is that as usual with PSA no one actually knows who is authenticating what and by what means they are doing it. I mean how do Bill in FL , Kevin in VA , and Rich in NV actually physically see and inspect and authenticate each item submitted to PSA because of their geographical distribution ?

That is a good question. I would guess the viable answer is scans??
Just speculating but personally I never would sign a COA based on just a scan.
It does seem though that the team is appearing at many card shows.

[RichardSimon]

To add answers to some of the open questions in this thread, the three new additions to PSA, Rich Albersheim, Bill Corcoran and Kevin Keating are winding down their autograph businesses and will no longer be buying and selling once they have wound down their inventory.
The team will be traveling extensively and will be spending time in California regularly to examine autographs.
Rich Albersheim will be relocating to California. Kevin and Bill will be staying in Virginia and Florida.
The logistics of all this still seem to me to be possibly difficult.
IMO this might result in slower authentication times but that is my opinion only. I don't know if that will happen.

[Scott Garner]

Hi Richard,
Just curious, I guess the obvious questions are:
1) Whether the autograph business is no longer lucrative or popular enough for the dealer
2) The PSA grading opportunity was much more lucrative for all three
3) A combination of both

I've been a customer of all three of these guys as well as Phil Marks in the past (as well as you and Jim Stinson )

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Hi Richard,
Just curious, I guess the obvious questions are:
1) Whether the autograph business is no longer lucrative or popular enough for the dealer
2) The PSA grading opportunity was much more lucrative for all three
3) A combination of both

I've been a customer of all three of these guys as well as Phil Marks in the past (as well as you and Jim Stinson )

I really did not get into asking those types of questions and answers. I would assume they will make more money with PSA than they did in their own business but obviously they are also giving up their independence.

[Klrdds]

I hope their well-earned respect and reputations do not get lowered or damaged by going to work for a "corporation " that is a business first and as such must turn a profit to be viable.
Giving up your independence for this is a big gamble unless you are looking to slow down and get out of the day to day "rat race' of buying and selling and having customers constantly ask you when making a purchase from you "if their purchase from you will pass PSA ".

[thetruthisoutthere]

Before the change-over at PSA, I never observed the below-style Derek Jeter forgery authenticated by PSA....Ever.

I'd sure like to know who at PSA certed it.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEREK-JETER-...vip=true&rt=nc





JeterSignatureRookies-Forgery-PSA.jpg



Below is a recent thread I did on Derek Jeter "Signature Rookies" forgeries.




http://live.autographmagazine.com/fo...ource=activity

[w7imel]

Why is that signature not real? Its a auto promo, would his rookie signature not look different from now?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by w7imel

Why is that signature not real? Its a auto promo, would his rookie signature not look different from now?

It's a common forgery.

Jeter's autograph changed multiple times between 1992 and 2000.

Now check this out. The dopey forger used the same number (477/1000) on the below Jeter forgery on a Signature Rookies card.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEREK-JETER-...p2047675.l2557





fielder-3.jpg




The forger was attempting to emulate the below authentic Jeter autograph.





JeterSig-100.jpg

[w7imel]

Thats pretty funny....they are some sneaky bastards those forgers....

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

It's a common forgery.

Jeter's autograph changed multiple times between 1992 and 2000.

Now check this out. The dopey forger used the same number (477/1000) on the below Jeter forgery on a Signature Rookies card.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEREK-JETER-...p2047675.l2557





Attachment 258686




The forger was attempting to emulate the below authentic Jeter autograph.





Attachment 258687

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Before the change-over at PSA, I never observed the below-style Derek Jeter forgery authenticated by PSA....Ever.

I'd sure like to know who at PSA certed it.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEREK-JETER-...vip=true&rt=nc





Attachment 258676



Below is a recent thread I did on Derek Jeter "Signature Rookies" forgeries.




http://live.autographmagazine.com/fo...ource=activity

I am sure that PSA transparency will not change.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

I hope their well-earned respect and reputations do not get lowered or damaged by going to work for a "corporation " that is a business first and as such must turn a profit to be viable.
Giving up your independence for this is a big gamble unless you are looking to slow down and get out of the day to day "rat race' of buying and selling and having customers constantly ask you when making a purchase from you "if their purchase from you will pass PSA ".

+1

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

...unless you are looking to slow down and get out of the day to day "rat race' of buying and selling and having customers constantly ask you when making a purchase from you "if their purchase from you will pass PSA ".

Well, it will now

[Klrdds]

Upon reflection doesn't this leave Richard and Jim Stinson as the last 2 large independent and not PSA / JSA dependent dealers out there ?

[Lordstan]

Seems so.
Unfortunately.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Seems so.
Unfortunately.

I would rather have two people that I can trust. Versus all the bs that has been out there for years.
Look at all the people that have trusted Psa Jsa they are up a creek without a paddle.
I hope people will now realize that the good guys finally won.

[Lordstan]

I agree shelly. I meant it's unfortunate that the others are leaving as they were also among the trustworthy sellers who didn't need a cert to sell and back up their goods.

[Klrdds]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

I agree shelly. I meant it's unfortunate that the others are leaving as they were also among the trustworthy sellers who didn't need a cert to sell and back up their goods.

I also agree and it makes you wonder why not 1 but 3 of the most trustworthy and best dealers in the hobby would get out like this in such a rapid fashion and simultaneously . Maybe money really does talk ...unfortunately it never says much to me !

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

I also agree and it makes you wonder why not 1 but 3 of the most trustworthy and best dealers in the hobby would get out like this in such a rapid fashion and simultaneously . Maybe money really does talk ...unfortunately it never says much to me !

Perhaps you don't speak money?

I think it could very well be a strategy on PSA's part. If they hire 3 of the most prominent auto dealers and make them PSA advocates it ads to the cache os PSA and therefore reinforces the idea that a cert is needed.

What the TPAs are obviously good at is marketing. After all PSA's website lists Premium price and liquidity, Confidence, Certified for Life, Verification, PSA's covert DNA strand, and recertification as the reasons for using their service. I wonder why accuracy is not there and why confidence is second? One would think the accurate eval of the auto in questions is reason number one to get something authenticated. No?

This move could easily be just more marketing or righting the ship, so to speak, to make up for Grad leaving with some controversy.

They made them a deal they couldn't refuse.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

One would think the accurate eval of the auto in questions is reason number one to get something authenticated. No?

Actually, no. The first thing mentioned by just about everyone who speaks up here in favor of TPAs is resale value. Right or wrong, if PSA says it's real, it's worth more. Hell, half the time they post a pic here to be assured it's real. Then they submit. No point wasting your authentication budget on a forgery.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

I also agree and it makes you wonder why not 1 but 3 of the most trustworthy and best dealers in the hobby would get out like this in such a rapid fashion and simultaneously . Maybe money really does talk ...unfortunately it never says much to me !

With the advent of the TPAs, one aspect of the expertise by which these guys made a living--being able to judge whether an autograph is good or not--became less and less valuable to them as dealers and more and more valuable to the TPAs. As a result, in the last 15 years, as the marketplace came to embrace, then require, TPAs, those lines have crossed for one dealer after another, and this latest flood of dealers becoming authenticators feels like some kind of demarcation. With everything slabbed at shows now, after all, dealers need only the ability to find and buy autographs at less than a price guide tells them they can sell it for, no other talent required, they could be vendors of anything. Auctions and eBay bypass the dealer altogether. For a guy like Keating, being a dinosaur in this new age got to be more and more frustrating until they finally made him an offer he couldn't turn down, and he went with the flow.

[Scott Garner]

Hank,
I appreciate you checking in and explaining this to us.
The fact that you are close friends with Kevin is helpful.

[Maddog]

I don't think this bodes well for the hobby.

Sure, PSA NOW has a team of real experts for authenticating but as we know, not everyone is a fan of slabbing and paying for a TPA.

Damn there were only 5 dealers I really trusted, now I'm down to 2?
Guess all I have now are Rich & Jim's next listings By the way, some Vintage Football autographs please

Does anyone see the possibility of someone filling the void? Hate to sound cynical (which I often am ) but I don't see too much professionalism or integrity in the hobby these days.

What is the average collector to do? We all know the amount of bad stuff out there and it's not limited to just the high $$$ items anymore. We want to bring new blood into the hobby but how can they learn if all the teachers are gone?

Thank Heavens for Net54.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by maddog

i don't think this bodes well for the hobby.

Sure, psa now has a team of real experts for authenticating but as we know, not everyone is a fan of slabbing and paying for a tpa.

Damn there were only 5 dealers i really trusted, now i'm down to 2?
Guess all i have now are rich & jim's next listings :d by the way, some vintage football autographs please

Does anyone see the possibility of someone filling the void? Hate to sound cynical (which i often am :d) but i don't see too much professionalism or integrity in the hobby these days.

What is the average collector to do? We all know the amount of bad stuff out there and it's not limited to just the high $$$ items anymore. We want to bring new blood into the hobby but how can they learn if all the teachers are gone?

Thank heavens for net54.

+100

[Klrdds]

Originally Posted by Maddog

I don't think this bodes well for the hobby.

Sure, PSA NOW has a team of real experts for authenticating but as we know, not everyone is a fan of slabbing and paying for a TPA.

Damn there were only 5 dealers I really trusted, now I'm down to 2?
Guess all I have now are Rich & Jim's next listings By the way, some Vintage Football autographs please

Does anyone see the possibility of someone filling the void? Hate to sound cynical (which I often am ) but I don't see too much professionalism or integrity in the hobby these days.

What is the average collector to do? We all know the amount of bad stuff out there and it's not limited to just the high $$$ items anymore. We want to bring new blood into the hobby but how can they learn if all the teachers are gone?

Thank Heavens for Net54.

I agree 100 %

[RichardSimon]

I have known those three guys for a long time and do trust them. All three have bought from me often.
However, my lack of trust for the PSA corporation is still there.
I do find it ironic that three dealers who would not use PSA have now been brought into their corporate structure. The corporation now endorses three people who would not endorse the corporation previously.
Talk amongst yourselves .
And I can understand the frustration that Kevin was feeling as Hank has described. Hi Hank, long time no see. I miss chatting with you. The Philly show was fun way back when.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Maddog

I don't think this bodes well for the hobby.

Sure, PSA NOW has a team of real experts for authenticating but as we know, not everyone is a fan of slabbing and paying for a TPA.

Damn there were only 5 dealers I really trusted, now I'm down to 2?
Guess all I have now are Rich & Jim's next listings By the way, some Vintage Football autographs please

Does anyone see the possibility of someone filling the void? Hate to sound cynical (which I often am ) but I don't see too much professionalism or integrity in the hobby these days.

What is the average collector to do? We all know the amount of bad stuff out there and it's not limited to just the high $$$ items anymore. We want to bring new blood into the hobby but how can they learn if all the teachers are gone?

Thank Heavens for Net54.

PM sent with a vintage football item I just got in.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I have known those three guys for a long time and do trust them. All three have bought from me often.
However, my lack of trust for the PSA corporation is still there.
I do find it ironic that three dealers who would not use PSA have now been brought into their corporate structure. The corporation now endorses three people who would not endorse the corporation previously.
Talk amongst yourselves .
And I can understand the frustration that Kevin was feeling as Hank has described. Hi Hank, long time no see. I miss chatting with you. The Philly show was fun way back when.

Same here, Richard, that's one thing about shows that nothing else will ever replace, the human element. I never did a show that wasn't fun, and that's why. As for Kevin and PSA, he was OK with them, in fact his name was on every one of their letters. He just didn't like the fact that the predominance of the TPAs came to diminish the respect for his own expertise as a dealer. It would drive him crazy to have to respond to the increasingly common question: "It's not slabbed, how do I know it's good?" He fought it as long as he could, but I knew what was coming and who would show him the respect he deserved for his knowledge. For several years, I told him he was next, it was just a matter of time, and he would laugh. Now I'll say the same thing to you, Richard. You're next!

[Klrdds]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Now I'll say the same thing to you, Richard. You're next!

Richard I sure hope not !

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

Richard I sure hope not !

I will never join a TPA company, you have my word.
And I am fairly certain that my good friend Jim Stinson would say the same thing.